Dallas Morning News 10/7/99 Lee Hancock "…….High-quality copies of FBI infrared tapes released this week to Branch Davidian lawyers include repeated bursts of rhythmic flashes from both government positions and the sect's compound, and two experts hired by the sect's lawyer say the flashes must be gunfire. A third expert, retained by the House Government Reform committee, analyzed a lower-quality copy of the infrared tape, which was shot on the last day of a 1993 standoff with the sect near Waco. He also concluded that flashes visible on the tape had to be gunfire, a committee staffer confirmed Wednesday…."

Dallas Morning News 10/7/99 Lee Hancock "…….Information that the Houston lawyers presented to Mr. Danforth's team included an expert's analysis that the FBI's infrared videotapes released to the public, Congress and the courts appear to have been altered, Mr. Caddell said. If the same gaps and electronic anomalies appear in original tapes still in Justice Department custody, Mr. Caddell said, he will use that to challenge the government's fire investigation as fatally flawed………A former government recording expert hired by the Houston lawyer said he found repeated anomalies. "There's so much editing on this tape, it's ridiculous," said Steve Cain, who spent more than 20 years as an audio and video expert with the U.S. Secret Service and the Internal Revenue Service's national crime lab in Chicago. Mr. Cain said his analysis is preliminary because he has not been granted access to the original tapes. But he said his work has turned up evidence of erasures of audio, including the one-hour, 20-minute period before the compound fire……"

Dallas Morning News 10/7/99 Lee Hancock "…….Carlos Ghigliotti, an expert retained by the House panel investigating the Waco matter, was quoted by the Washington Post Wednesday that his analysis of the tapes convinced him that FBI agents shot in the direction of the Davidian compound on April 19. ….."

Dallas Morning News 10/7/99 Lee Hancock "…….The infrared tapes sent Monday to Mr. Caddell were described by Justice Department lawyers as "first-generation" copies of the original tapes shot at Waco on April 19, he said. ……. Inexplicably included in the opening minutes of that tape is an eight-minute portion date-stamped April 16. That footage appears to be a frozen infrared shot of an empty field with no images of the compound. Mr. Cain said that was one of the most egregious of what he described as dozens of unexplained anomalies. "And it appears that either insert edits or other types of over recordings were made by the same or different video camera sources," said his Sept. 30 preliminary report to Mr. Caddell. ……. Maurice Cox, a retired satellite imagery analyst and mathematician who worked for 33 years on secret government photo-reconnaissance projects said Wednesday that he shares many of Mr. Cain's concerns. He recently examined copies of the FBI infrared tapes released last month. "There are things that I don't understand. I don't know what they mean, but I know that you need to go to the master tapes and find out what in the hell is going on," said Mr. Cox, who lives in California. ……"

Dallas Morning News 10/7/99 Lee Hancock "…….Mr. Ghigliotti could not be reached Wednesday. In a statement released by the House Government Reform Committee, Chairman Dan Burton, R-Ind., said he had been briefed on his findings and found them "troubling." But he said that it was premature to draw conclusions. ......"

New York Post 1999? Brian Blomquist "…..An expert in thermal imaging has concluded that the FBI fired shots during the 1993 Waco siege, contrary to the government's claim that no shots were fired. "I conclude that the FBI fired shots that day," Carlos Ghigliotti, whose expertise has been sought by the House Government Reform Committee, told The Washington Post. "I conclude this based on the ground-view videotapes taken from several different angles simultaneously and based on the overhead thermal tape. The gunfire from the ground is there, without a doubt," he added. Ghigliotti, an expert in thermal imaging and videotape analysis who has done past work for the FBI, analyzed videotapes of the government siege on the Branch Davidian compound, which killed about 80 people near Waco, Texas. He said the tapes also show that the Branch Davidians were firing on the FBI agents during the siege, meaning the FBI could have returned fire based on the rules of engagement……."

New York Post 1999? Brian Blomquist "…..From 1991 to 1995, Ghigliotti, 42, was paid by the FBI as a thermal-imaging expert in an array of environmental-dumping cases, according to an FBI document. Ghigliotti "performed reliable work for the FBI," the 1995 document states. In 1993, Ghigliotti was sentenced to 18 months of unsupervised probation and fined $250 for assaulting the owner of a dump site. Ghigliotti, who had prepared documents for a Maryland environmental agency, alleged that the dump-site owner duped him by posing as a county watchman to improperly gain access to the documents……. The Government Reform Committee also is re-investigating Waco - and is going to ask other video/thermal experts, besides Ghigliotti, to analyze the tapes. ….."

DRUDGE 4/29/00 "…..Police said Saturday they are investigating the death of an expert hired by a congressional committee who alleged last October that shots were fired in the Waco siege. There was no sign of a break-in or struggle at the firm of Infrared Technology outside Washington where the badly decomposed body of Carlos Ghigliotti, 42, was found Friday afternoon, Laurel police said in a news release. Ghigliotti had not been seen for several weeks. The office of the chief medical examiner for the state of Maryland was performing an autopsy in Baltimore. The autopsy wasn't expected to be completed until Monday. ………."

Washington Post 4/29/00 Cindy Loose "…….Carlos Ghigliotti, who had been retained by a U.S. House committee to help investigate the 1993 siege of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Tex., was found dead in Laurel under unexplained circumstances yesterday. "We're investigating it as a homicide," said Laurel police spokesman Jim Collins. Ghigliotti, 42, was found about 1:30 p.m. in the 600 block of Washington Boulevard. His body was badly decomposed, said police. There were no signs of a break-in or a struggle at the home, where Ghigliotti ran his business, Infrared Technologies Corp., police said……… "

Washington Post 4/29/00 "…….A building manager, concerned that no one had seen Ghigliotti for some weeks, contacted police, who found the body…….Ghigliotti's body was transported to the chief medical examiner's office in Baltimore for an autopsy……."

Washington Post 4/29/00 "…….Michael Caddell, lead lawyer in a $100 million wrongful death lawsuit stemming from the Waco siege, said last night that he recently had discussed the findings with Ghigliotti and intended to retain him--not only because his work was impressive but also because Caddell's first expert had suffered a stoke recently…."

Washington Post 4/29/00 "……. Caddell said that two weeks ago he wrote to Waco Special Counsel John C. Danforth, urging that he interview Ghigliotti immediately. Caddell said he'd heard of Ghigliotti's death yesterday from Rep. Dan Burton (R-Ind.), chair of the committee that retained Ghigliotti. Police called Burton, Caddell said, because his business card was found in Ghigliotti's pocket……."

Freeper Ian Goddard 4/29/00 "……I'd previously spoken to Dr Edward Allard, who almost died of a heart attack the week before the FLIR test, the same week that another witness for the plaintiffs suddenly died of a heart attack. When I called Allard yesterday, I was told that he can no longer talk about Waco. Since Allard's disabling stroke, the attorney's for the plaintiffs have been looking for another FLIR expert and were going to sign on Carlos Ghigliotti, but unfortunately he was just found dead yesterday. Are they knocking them off one by one, or what?…………. "

Freeper Map Kernow 4/29/00 "……"He also told me that that the House Gov't Reform Committee had even more data than he did, that he knew only part of it and couldn't talk about it, but that it was really shocking."…..Thank you for all we're likely to know about the untimely end of Carlos Ghigliotti. Let me add to the above datum that it is also likely that people in the Cox Commission have information on the extent of Chinese espionage and cooperation by the Clinton Administration, that ranges far beyond what they considered fit to release. I've been told that it's 100x anyone's worst imaginings. But apparently none of us are going to know until after Clinton leaves power, if that ever happens. ….."

Freeper Map Kernow 4/29/00 "……My source is a fellow FReeper who lives in Newport Beach in Cox's District, who went to "Town Hall" meetings featuring Cong. Cox (who really is a decent guy) and got this kind of feedback. My constituent buddy figures that the *ahem!* "bipartisan" character of the Cox Report prevented the worst details from getting into the report, in order to get acquiescence in the final report from the Democrats on the committee rather than the usual partisan sniping. Maybe Cox didn't figure on all the partisan sniping once the report was released from those Democrats who weren't on the committee! ….."

Freeper robnoel 4/29/00 "…….I have had McNaulty on my show many times I will have him on again Monday sorry I can't say what hour...however Thursday last week in Ft.Collins he showed for the first time the slides (FLIR) in question....there is no question about what it shows....unlike watching "WACO "THE NEW REVALATION" on video this was shown in a movie theater.....he proved that the FBI had doctored a frame of video....this was a scene where the first shots were fired from the FBI chopper....on the FBI video no one is seen in the court yard however in the tape McNaulty has you can clearly see someone.....and the agents laying fire into the building from behind the tank......amazing! ….."

Freeper Lex 4/29/00 "…..April 29, 2000 4:20 am Arizona Time I just called the Laurel Police Department and got this statement:

Freeper Demidog 4/29/00 "…. I've corresponded on and off with David T. Hardy for about 7 years. I've known him to be fair and truthfull to a fault. ……"

Freeper Republic 4/29/00 "….My guess-he was trying to contact DAN BURTON the day he was killed-or while he was dying. He found something out...something that would rock the WACO boat and expose the putrid underbelly of that creepy tortuous massacre ….."

Freeper Covenantor 4/29/00 "…… Several weeks and no one complained about the smell of the 'badly decomposed body'? No mention of of ransacking his studio area (he ran the business from home). No colleagues or friends tried to reach him in that period? Who now has control of the office/residence? The business card found sounds like a warning. .Wonder why Danforth hasn't taken control of the office/residence?….."

Freeper roughrider 4/29/00 "…… I guess those women who run the firm Infraspection in California were right to withdraw their participation in the "60 Minutes" piece about Waco that was referred to in WACO: THE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT. As soon as they saw that gunfire was directed into the building, and pyrotechnic explosions were visible on the FLIR, Infraspection told "60 Minutes" in a letter that they wanted out of the story. There will be only one story told, and that is the Davidians got what they had coming to them. Since the vast majority of Americans did not lose any family members in the assault, they do not care, and look with suspicion and even alarm at those of us who do……"

Freeper wooly_mammoth 4/29/00 "….."The business card found sounds like a warning." Yup, it sure does….."

Reply from Dave Hardy 5/3/00 "…..

Washington Post 4/18/97 Richard Leiby Jim McGee "….."A year ago, around the time of the last Waco anniversary, the FBI was able to make this gunfire matter go away quietly. CBS News's "60 Minutes" was asking about those strange flashes on the FLIR tape. Its producers hired another expert who said he believed they were gunfire. Those are not gunshots, FBI officials insisted. They're reflections of sunlight on broken glass and blowing debris. And besides, there are no shooters visible on the tape, the FBI pointed out. You can't have gunshots without shooters. "60 Minutes" never ran a story. "I reached the conclusion that this was inconclusive," says Rome Hartman, a "60 Minutes" producer. The "Waco" documentary makers point to this as proof of a continuing cover-up. FBI spokesmen point to the same fact as confirming that the gunshot theory is nonsense. …….."

Freeper aristeides 4/29/00 "…… So maybe something untoward did happen on April 19 of this year. If so, somebody has a ghoulish sense of humor. Speaking of things that happened on April 19th, I couldn't help but be struck by this: He said that the big problem the Committee seemed to see was the question of how they could get the information out, while at the same time preventing another Oklahoma City type reprisal--it was that shocking. ……… The OK City bombing occurred a few weeks before the Burton subcommittee hearings on Waco in 1995. Could being able to make this argument have been one of the reasons why the FBI and other government agencies allowed the bombing to happen?……. By the way, I can't understand why preventing another OK City bombing would be more important than cleaning up federal law enforcement and discrediting the guilty parties. Let ten such bombings happen. If the government can be cleaned up in the process, it would be a price well worth paying. I am a federal employee, and I am quite willing to subject myself to the risk of being the victim of such a bombing under these circumstances……"

Freeper aristeides 4/30/00 "….. Remember that the final assault on Waco was 50 years to the day of the final assault on the Warsaw Ghetto, which was intended to be Hitler's Birthday present. And also, as a Washington Post story from later that week that Wallaby found tells us, Clinton paid a two-hour visit to the new Holocaust Museum "late" on that day of the final assault at Waco, Apr. 19, 1993……"

NewsMax.com 4/30/00 David Hardy "…….David Hardy is an attorney who has been involved in civil litigation relating to the Waco raid of 1993. Mr. Hardy had significant deals with Carlos Ghigliotti, an expert Congress had hired to review infra-red film taken during the FBI raid of the Koresh compound. For the first time Mr. Hardy reveals what Mr. Ghigliotti told him about the film…..."

Freeper roughrider 4/30/00 "…….Camouflaged agents dismounting from the rear doors of tanks or infantry fighting vehicles are visible in several of the conventional videos of the last assault, including "Incident at Waco," one of the first, which was a starting point for "Rules of Engagement." Also, FBI overall leader, Jeffrey Jamar, told the media that HRT troops actually entered the tunnel and buried bus, allegedly looking for the children, and claiming the HRT troops found the air fresh down there. Unfortunately, Jamar's statements to the media, and I believe to Congress, are contradicted by other testimony:

Freeper Jeff Head 4/30/00 "…..So, here in the last 6-8 weeks we've had the Sheriff and both FLIR experts die……."

Freeper joanie-f 4/30/00 "… He'd mentioned that the guy with Infraspection Institute, who had analyzed the FLIR for 60 Minutes back in '95 or '96, and found FBI gunshots and shooters on it, had been terrified. In fact, he'd sent copies of the tape to Carlos and to several others in the IR field, with notes saying "If anything happens to me, you'll know why." (The same guy later called me, said he didn't want his name used, that "there are too many people already in their graves over this." I wrote him off as him being rather nervous.)…….. "

Freeper Abundy 4/30/00 "…..ME issue - unless things have changed, all autopsies (sp) are preformed by the medical examiner in Baltimore. If you have a stiff in Cumberland it goes to Baltimore for the autopsy. Strange, but true. ….."

Neal Knox 5/1/00 "…….Until less than a month before he died, Ghigliotti was the infrared (FLIR) expert examining the FBI's Waco tape for Chairman Dan Burton's House Government Reform Committee. Last October he told the Washington Post that "The gunfire from the ground is there, without a doubt." He had told private Waco researcher Dave Hardy much more -- and shown him a first-generation version of the FBI FLIR video shot the day of the final fire. That verson showed shots and a visible bullet trace, Hardy said, and the Branch Davidian who the shot had missed. Ghigliotti had also spotted someone taking a firing stance who had been filmed by a long-range commercial television video -- at the time and spot where the FBI FLIR tape showed a gun flash. ……….. Hardy, a meticulous researcher whom I've known over 25 years, had been provided a lot of information by Ghigliotti including the preliminary report he gave the Burton committee last month -- when he gave a final briefing to both the Republican and Democrat staffs. That was apparently the only summary of Ghigliotti's findings outside the committee. Dave wrote himself an insurance policy earlier tonight by posting a lengthy article on NewsMax.com based on information Ghigliotti had given him. I have reason to believe that Dave has also given a copy of Ghigliotti's preliminary report to certain members of the press. ……"

Neal Knox 5/1/00 "…….By the way, immediately after the "reenactment" of the FLIR videotaping last month at Ft. Hood, Ghigliotti told Dave the test was worthless for the helicopter wasn't at the same altitude, the temperature was 20 degrees lower, and certain calibration tests had not been done. He was dead before the American-owned British aerospace firm that did the tests told Judge Walter Smith that the apparent gunflashes seen on the FBI FLIR were only reflections. ……"

Freeper pjd 5/1/00 "….This summary was posted on NewsMax today:

Freeper GluteusMax 5/1/00 "…….The author of Waco: Rules of Engagement and Waco: A New Revelation was on the radio (Robby Noel's show) this morning disclosing that the other 2 FLIR experts had near misses with death the same week that this man was killed. (Well, the police are treating it as a homicide anyway. Any bets on a 'natural cause' being determined for this 42 year old FLIR expert?) One man inexplicably developed a lethal level of blood poisoning and spent 10 days in the hospital, and the other one had a 'stroke' and is still hospitalized, although there is hope he will be well enough to testify in 2 months. ……"

Freeper d14truth 5/2/00 "…."A November 1, 1999 New Yorker article on Waco reports: "Allard, a former physics professor, ran a bit of the video for Danforth, stopped to explain the basics of thermal imagery, and then returned to the scene of what he believes is a pitched gun battle between Davidians and F.B.I. agents firing automatic weapons. "I can look at students, and I can tell you if they're paying attention," Allard says. "The Danforth people were totally absorbed." Of one scene in the video, he says, "There's no question that's a full gun battle." As he recalls it, "What I did with the Danforth people is, I said to them, 'Look, why don't you count the fire your-self? I played the tapes, frame by frame. And as you play them frame by frame the people say, 'I see one, two, three, four. . . I see five! No, I think there's four, run it back? And pretty soon they say, 'Yeah, there's five shots from there, and there's one shot from the other side." It is probably not good news for the F.B.I. that Danforth and his staff have been counting the F.B.I.'s putative automatic-gunfire shots at Waco... However, an independent specialist in thermal imaging, Carlos Ghigliotti, viewed the F.B.I.'s FUR tapes at F.B.I. headquarters, and concluded that shots had been fired. If the government is forced to confess another prevarication, the conspiracy fires will certainly flame higher." ….."

Dallas Morning News 5/2/00 Lee Hancock "…..The lead lawyer in the Branch Davidians' wrongful death lawsuit asked a federal judge Monday to impound all information relating to the 1993 siege of the sect's compound from a Washington-area office where an infrared expert was found dead last week. Mike Caddell of Houston said he sought emergency intervention from the court in Waco to ensure that all significant information was preserved from the Laurel, Md., office and home of Carlos Ghigliotti. Police were still investigating the cause of Mr. Ghigliotti's death Monday……. Judge Smith told both sides in the case that the British firm, Vector Data Research, would submit its final report on May 8 and would provide "conclusive evidence" linking each flash to a specific cause, such as sunlight reflecting off broken glass. ……. But Mr. Caddell and other lawyers representing surviving Branch Davidians and families of those who died have questioned Vector's conclusions, particularly the finding that no people were visible on the infrared video until well after the sect's compound began burning. ……"

Dallas Morning News 5/2/00 Lee Hancock "…..Mr. Caddell and another lawyer, David T. Hardy of Tucson, Ariz., said Mr. Ghigliotti had recently shown each of them repeated examples of what he said were images of people visible in the vicinity of some of the unexplained flashes that appeared on the film in the hour before the fire. Mr. Caddell wrote Mr. Danforth's office on April 17 and asked investigators to interview Mr. Ghigliotti, saying that the analyst had shown him one particularly compelling image on the video in which the hatch of an FBI armored vehicle "clearly opens, and it appears someone emerges from that tank." Mr. Caddell's letter stated that image appeared as the compound began burning and only seconds before a series of flashes appeared near the same armored vehicle. ……. "I have been trying to reach him for the last few days, but he is apparently out of town," the April 17 letter stated. "In any event, his work is by far the most impressive I have seen in terms of analyzing the April 19 . . . [videotape], and I do not think you can fully appreciate his work unless you visit his lab and spend several hours with him reviewing key points." Mr. Caddell also told the court last month that he planned to hire Mr. Ghigliotti to replace his principal infrared expert, who recently suffered a stroke. ……"

Dallas Morning News 5/2/00 Lee Hancock "….."Mr. Ghigliotti's work product on this issue is extremely important to plaintiffs and to the court's analysis and conclusions," Mr. Caddell's Monday motion stated. "Accordingly, plaintiffs seek an order from the court preserving the completeness and integrity of that work product. Without such an order, plaintiffs have no assurances that third parties will not lose, damage or destroy (innocently or intentionally) irreplaceable work product by Mr. Ghigliotti."……"

WorldNetDaily 5/3/00 Sarah Foster "…..The mysterious death of a key figure in the ongoing Waco congressional investigation may not have been from natural causes, according to attorney David T. Hardy, who fears that his friend Carlos Ghigliotti, owner of Infrared Technology, may have been the victim of foul play. ...... "It's highly suspicious," says Hardy, commenting on the circumstances surrounding the death of the infrared expert, whose badly decomposed body was discovered Friday at 1:30 p.m., seated at his desk in his laboratory-office in Laurel, Md. Ghigliotti had not been seen nor heard from for several weeks……."

WorldNetDaily 5/3/00 Sarah Foster "…..In an exclusive interview with WorldNetDaily, Hardy said he first talked to Ghigliotti in 1996, by phone, but not until December 1998, during a trip to Washington, D.C., did the two men meet face to face. Hardy said he was most impressed with the office and laboratory of Infrared Technologies, which were two adjoining rooms on the third floor of an office building. In the first room were desks and worktables. The laboratory was in the second, "with some really impressive equipment -- sophisticated computers, four large monitors, Super VHS decks," Hardy recalled. ……. If the death was not of natural causes, what would be the motive? WorldNetDaily asked. ……. Hardy's answer: "I think he may have known too much. Carlos told me he had discovered things that were much, much worse than anything that had yet come out." ……"

WorldNetDaily 5/3/00 Sarah Foster "…..This past December, Hardy visited Infrared Technology a second time, and Ghigliotti showed him some of the work he was doing. …….. "Carlos wouldn't tell me everything," Hardy said, "but he did give me a 'little tidbit' as he called it. He told me the whole operation [at Waco] from the start of the siege to the end was funded out of the drug forfeiture monies that are supposed to be used only in the war on drugs. "He said not only the ATF raid -- the whole siege, most of it the FBI funded out of the drug war monies. Now those are special funds. He told me he had a lot of documentation showing the flow of money - which explains the new uniforms and new equipment the agents had at the start of the raid. "I don't know why they [the committee] put him onto this issue," Hardy continued, "but apparently he was working on it." He said Ghigliotti -- who was standing by his desk as he talked -- placed his hand on a "thick pile of manuals and memoranda" to indicate the documentation he had assembled on this most recent assignment. He told Hardy, "All the standards for when you're allowed to use that money are laid down in writing, and they [the government agencies] violated all of the standards to get at the money. And the committee knows it." "So basically, Carlos really had them not only for attempted murder, perjury, and a few other things -- he also got them for embezzlement [of designated funds]," Hardy observed, adding he hoped the committee would continue to investigate that angle. Hardy told WorldNetDaily he did not know what happened to the various documents Ghigliotti had compiled for his investigation into the funding of the raid and siege. "The last I saw of them they were sitting on his desk in his office," he said. ……"

WorldNetDaily 5/3/00 Sarah Foster "………. Hardy explained: "There were several media video tapes made through gigantic telephoto lenses, but from one, two or three miles away. Carlos could import video into his computers; he had actually invented a system himself for showing on one frame the regular video and the FLIR. And then if you can coordinate them by time, by seeing some event that shows up on both, you can play both images side-by-side. What he'd done was, he got to a point where watching them side-by-side you can see in regular video a side view of a man shouldering a weapon. And on the FLIR at the same position, a flash of a gunshot. ………. "When I heard that I just cried, OK. End of game. The game is over," said Hardy. "I told him, it's all over. What's the debate over whether these are gunshots, if you have a man shouldering a rifle at the same time a flash is seen?" Hardy said he does not know where the tape is now. …….. Hardy also isn't certain he's seen the same tape, but he did see one it could have been when he visited Ghigliotti in December. In any case, the one he watched was highly incriminating, he said. ...... "He showed me a regular video image of an FBI guy shouldering a gun," said Hardy. "Now, I'm not sure it's the same image, but you could see this guy, he was shooting at shallow angle to the ground, so you see bushes and then some parked tanks. This is after the fire has begun. And you see FBI guys on the far side of the tanks. It's a blurry image, and I had seen it before and never made anything out of it. I mean it just looked like lousy video. ………….. "Carlos asked if I had seen this before, and I said, 'Yeah.' And he said, 'I'll show you something I bet you didn't.' Carlos had a hell of an eye. He points to one of the men and says, 'Watch that man and tell me what he's doing.' And by focusing on one man I could see he takes a shooting stance, a stance of a man shouldering a rifle. You can't really see the rifle, but there's no question about the stance. Then he turns and realizes the media cameras can see him. You can't see the face, but you can see the dark helmet suddenly turn to all flesh color and you can see his shoulders turn toward you. "Then there's about half a second where obviously what goes through his mind is, Oh, no! He ducks down behind the tank. The reaction is unmistakable. Oh, no! Duck. And he squats down in front of the tank. That may be the image he was talking about that he could link by time." ……."

APBnews.com 5/2/00 Amy Worden "……Attorneys representing surviving Branch Davidians in their wrongful death lawsuit against the U.S. government have asked a federal judge to impound all materials related to the Waco siege from the office and home of an expert witness found dead here last week. ……Police found the decomposing body of Carlos Ghigliotti, a 42-year-old infrared-technology expert, in his Washington-area office Friday. The building's managers had asked police to investigate after not seeing him for several weeks. …….. Police said there was no evidence of a break-in, struggle or any other foul play. ……… "We are investigating it as an unintended death, that is, a deceased person with no immediately apparent cause of death," said Lt. Fred Carmen of the Laurel Police Department. …..Officials with the medical examiner's office in Baltimore said the autopsy was not yet complete. Carmen said the results could be in as early as next week. …….."

APBnews.com 5/2/00 Amy Worden "……Ghigliotti was hired last year as an independent expert by the House Government Reform Committee to analyze controversial videotapes of the 1993 raid showing unidentified flashes inside the Branch Davidian compound. Ghigliotti's conclusion that the flashes were bursts from government agents' weapons supported the plaintiffs' contention that the Branch Davidians were fired upon during the raid. ………. Hardy said Branch Davidian attorney Michael Cardell was planning to hire Ghigliotti as his new infrared technology expert after the first one suffered a stroke in March. Hardy said Ghigliotti's death hurts the plaintiffs' case. "His death is quite damaging," Hardy said. "He had not, as far as I know, submitted a final report, only his preliminary report that does not give all the details. Now new experts are going to have to reconstruct his work based on his outline and what's in his office. So much of that work was his eye, without him telling you what was there." ….."

The Libertarian Enterprise Weekly 4/29/00 John Taylor, Editor "….Let me say this as preface: I have corresponded with David Hardy, and believe him to be honorable and honest. The material below is so shocking and explosive in nature that the first inclination is to sit on it and wait, to see if it is as it appears. ...... But freedom and liberty are too important for us to continue to be always prudent. So, against better editorial judgment (trust, but verify), I am forwarding this information just as received, edited only for formatting purposes. Please read it carefully, and realize that, as powerful as it may be, it is so if and only if true. ...... Please read this material closely. Please do not act irrationally. Please remember that we are unlike our enemies only as long as we remain on the moral high ground……."

Kelch
Cindy Bathsky -- CBS 60 min. & Novel
Wanted no part of this -- no trust [them or this] --
Wash. Post -- my co[mpany] name -- 5th Estate
Need contact me + Gifford
If corporate name -- gonna have problem
No want to be involved in the [the or this] [ ]
Too many end in grave ........."

Washington Post 4/18/97 Richard Leiby Jim McGee "….."First, The Post mailed copies of the FLIR tape -- those portions obtained from court filings -- to people with infrared and weapons experience. After the FBI gave us a one-hour excerpt (but not the whole tape), we showed that to local defense contractors who specialize in interpreting FLIR. And we took the tape to the military's top scientists. In all, 12 examiners offered opinions. These days, infrared analysts are fairly easy to find. Once an expensive military technology, FLIR is now widely used in private industry and law enforcement -- especially in drug cases where infrared cameras are used to locate indoor marijuana growers' hot lamps and methamphetamine labs. Four of the analysts contacted by The Post, who have extensive military and weapons experience, were convinced that they saw bursts on the tape indicative of gunfire going into the compound. "The gunfire signatures are real," said Joseph Horn, an El Paso, Tex., consultant on firearms evidence, who wrote a letter pointing out five incidents that Allard had also deemed gunfire. But where were the shooters? "It bothered me that I wasn't able to see their bodies," said Horn, a former Los Angeles County sheriff's deputy. "But the patterns of the firing were there." ……."

Washington Post 4/18/97 Richard Leiby Jim McGee "….."Ron Smith, who runs a business in Tempe, Ariz., supplying machine guns to law-enforcement and military agencies, said he counted seven separate instances of automatic weapons fire on the tape -- also directed at the buildings. He believes the alleged shooters could have been wearing FLIR-resistant camouflage. …….. Tom Simpson is a computer imaging specialist in Camarillo, Calif., who once trained military officials on how to read FLIR. Here's his report on the Waco tape: "We observed no less than 60 of what can only be explained as gunfire energy bursts . . . all directed at the compound. We took great pains to explain these events in another fashion . . . but were unable to find that explanation."

Houston Chroncile 5/6/00 Michelle Malkin "…….Elian Gonzalez groupies continue to call the Easter-weekend raid in Miami "another Waco." These people need a Texas-sized kick in the rear. There is only one Waco. It's a travesty to compare the government's bloodless, three-minute retrieval of one little Cuban boy to the 51-day federal siege, capped by a fatal inferno, which claimed the lives of 21 innocent children and 59 adults on their native soil……. One man who might have shed light on the lingering question of gunfire at Waco was Carlos Ghigliotti. Ghigliotti ran a Maryland-based firm called Infrared Technologies Corp., which had done extensive work for the FBI. Ghigliotti was, by all accounts, a respected expert in forward-looking infrared (FLIR) imaging and analysis. ...... "

Houston Chroncile 5/6/00 Michelle Malkin "…….Last fall, after studying hundreds of hours of ground-view and overhead FLIR tapes of the Waco raid for the House Government Reform Committee, Ghigliotti concluded that the FBI had fired shots in the direction of the Branch Davidian compound during the final assault on April 19, 1993. The findings echo those of another prominent thermal-imaging expert: Edward Allard, a former Defense Department physicist, who designed the FLIR equipment used by the FBI, and analyzed Waco footage for the groundbreaking documentary Waco: The Rules of Engagement….. The FBI continues to deny categorically that any agent fired any shots that day. But now, Carlos Ghigliotti cannot tell the public about his follow-up research refuting the government's claims. Carlos Ghigliotti is dead...."

Houston Chroncile 5/6/00 Michelle Malkin "…….. Police statements about Ghigliotti's death have evolved rather strangely. Initially, Officer Jim Collins told the news media: "We're investigating it as a homicide." A few days later, despite not having seen final toxicology and autopsy reports, Collins stressed to me that "there is nothing to indicate foul play was involved." Another spokesman, Lt. Fred Carmen of the Laurel Police Department, said: "We are investigating it as an unintended death, that is, a deceased person with no immediately apparent cause of death." …….. Close followers of the Waco case are understandably suspicious. And why shouldn't they be? Law-enforcement officials have repeatedly lied, stonewalled and suppressed critical information on all aspects of the Waco case over the past seven years: They lodged bogus charges of child abuse against Branch Davidians. They denied using incendiary devices during the raid -- only to acknowledge having fired at least two flammable tear-gas canisters into the compound. They "misplaced" audio recordings from infrared footage that demonstrated official government orders to use pyrotechnics. They confiscated -- then "lost" -- vital autopsy evidence from the Tarrant County, Texas, coroner's office. ......And now, they want us to believe that what Ghigliotti and Allard separately concluded were gunshots were merely flashes of sunlight and reflections of broken window glass. ……"

CARLOS GHIGLIOTTI

MOUNTAIN MEDIA 5/7/00 Vin Suprynowicz "……. The lead lawyer in the Branch Davidians' wrongful death lawsuit against the federal government Monday asked a federal judge to impound all information relating to the 1993 Mount Carmel siege from a Washington-area office where a government infrared expert was found dead last week, reports Lee Hancock in The Dallas Morning News……… Attorney Mike Caddell of Houston said he sought emergency intervention from the court to ensure all significant information was preserved from the Laurel, Md., office and home of Carlos Ghigliotti…….."

MOUNTAIN MEDIA 5/7/00 Vin Suprynowicz "……. Attorney Caddell had written to the office of former Sen. John Danforth, now conducting an independent investigation into the Waco holocaust, on April 17, asking investigators to interview Mr. Ghigliotti, saying the analyst had shown him one particularly compelling image on the video in which the hatch of an FBI armored vehicle "clearly opens, and it appears someone emerges from that tank." Mr. Caddell's letter states that image appeared as the compound began burning and only seconds before a series of flashes appeared near the same armored vehicle…….. "I have been trying to reach him for the last few days, but he is apparently out of town," the April 17 letter to Danforth stated. "In any event, his work is by far the most impressive I have seen in terms of analyzing the April 19 (1993 videotape), and I do not think you can fully appreciate his work unless you visit his lab and spend several hours with him reviewing key points."……."

MOUNTAIN MEDIA 5/7/00 Vin Suprynowicz "……. Attorney Caddell had also told the court last month that he planned to hire Mr. Ghigliotti to replace his principal infrared expert, Dr. Edward Allard, who suffered a stroke in March. "Mr. Ghigliotti's work product on this issue is extremely important to plaintiffs and to the court's analysis and conclusions," Caddell's Monday motion stated………"

MOUNTAIN MEDIA 5/7/00 Vin Suprynowicz "……. But Mark Corallo, a spokesman for the congressional committee chaired by Rep. Dan Burton, R-Ind., told police shortly after Ghigliotti's body was found that the analyst's work for the committee ended "some time ago." That sounded odd, so I decided to check with Tucson attorney David T. Hardy, who retired recently after a decade as headquarters agency attorney for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in Washington, D.C.-a fellow whose credentials include letters of commendation for his "exceptional litigation support" from such anti-government extremists as the assistant attorney general of the United States (home page, indirect.com/www/dhardy/waco.html.)………. Attorney Hardy now posts a long description of Ghigliotti's work at his own and numerous other web sites (including http://www.webleyweb.com/tle/index.html.) Among other things, he describes how "Through the committee, Carlos was able to obtain a remarkable copy of the FLIR, a quantum leap above what anyone else possessed."………

On that high-quality tape, Ghigliotti catalogued "nearly 200 suspected gunshots, and had done the work necessary to verify that many of these were genuine. Understand that his idea of 'verify' wasn't just to see the image. He wanted to find the shooters, as well, and to plot their movement from one flash location to another. And he wanted to correlate the FLIR images to every possible ordinary video image, to see if he could link up what the media filmed from the side with what the FLIR registered from overhead. He was really hot on getting some footage shot by DPS from a site behind the building, so that he could tie that in as well. This man was thorough-no rushing to judgment. ... "He knew this was no normal case. As he once said, the Waco FLIR was probably going to be the next Zapruder film, and he wasn't going to say something that he couldn't prove against any criticism…….."

MOUNTAIN MEDIA 5/7/00 Vin Suprynowicz "……. "He said that the big problem the Committee seemed to see was the question of how they could get the information out, while at the same time preventing another Oklahoma City type reprisal-it was that shocking. ...I asked Hardy what he thought of the manner of Ghigliotti's death."It's very suspicious, though there's no evidence yet. The guy was only 42, he was in good health when I saw him, reasonably fit. A heart attack in a 42-year-old? It's not impossible, but it's sort of rare……… "There are three computer analysts on the side against the government in this case. The first one, Dr. Ed Allard, collapsed of a stroke in mid-March just before the re-creation test, so he couldn't attend. The second one, who was to be his replacement, a Dr. Siegel, collapsed in late March, unconscious; they diagnosed it as massive blood poisoning. After 10 days in the hospital he gets out. Now Carlos is found dead…….."

MOUNTAIN MEDIA 5/7/00 Vin Suprynowicz "……. I asked Dave Hardy if it was in anyone's power to make Carlos Ghigliotti's work disappear. "He delivered at least a preliminary report to the committee; he was working on the final report as late as early April. He was still working on the final report, so that, if no one has gotten to it, it should be sitting there in the office or on his word processor………. "Mike McNulty told me he had taken Carlos' notes to Dr. Allard, who is apparently in good enough shape to go back and do some FLIR analysis now, and they had found some of the stuff notated by Carlos, including the guy running and shooting through the gym wreckage. So his final report, we may be able to find some truth out of that. ..."

MOUNTAIN MEDIA 5/7/00 Vin Suprynowicz "……. "My last conversation with Carlos, he was trying to get that piece of footage of the helicopter (seen in McNulty's new video "Waco: A New Revelation," firing at a Branch Davidian on the roof of the church just before the fire) which is in the hands of the Texas Department of Public Safety, so he could compare it with the FLIR. He said the committee wouldn't send him to Texas to get it; they wouldn't pay for the plane ticket. So you've got the man who's going to hand you everything on a platter, and they won't spring for the plane ticket………. "What really hacks me off is the committee saying 'He hadn't worked with us for some time.' According to my notes he only had a dispute with them" (the committee declined to give Ghigliotti more time to do a more detailed analysis, and he also complained they were slow in paying him) "in mid-March, after he'd been working with them for seven and a half months. I know he was still briefing them on work he'd already done, as late as March 30."……"

MOUNTAIN MEDIA 5/7/00 Vin Suprynowicz "……. I asked Hardy, the former U.S. government attorney, if he believed Rep. Dan Burton's committee is really trying to get out the truth about the Waco paramilitary action and subsequent massacre. "Up until the events with Carlos I would have said they were trying to bring the facts out, but now I doubt it. You've seen the evidence with your own eyes, he's given you the reports, and now they're claiming, 'Well, he hasn't worked for us for some time'? I start to doubt it."……."

Neal Knox 5/3/00 "…… The Branch Davidians' lead attorney, Mike Caddell, on Monday asked Waco Judge Walter Smith to impound all computers and Waco-related information in the office and laboratory of infrared (FLIR) expert Carlos Ghigliotti, whose badly decomposed body was found Friday. Yesterday, Special Counsel John Danforth joined that request. Ghigliotti had worked for Rep. Burton's Government Reform Committee until late March, shortly before he died. He had found that the FBI and Davidians had engaged in a gun battle, and that the shots and shooters from both sides were visible on the FLIR tape FBI took just before the fatal fire…………. In late April Caddell had told the judge he intended to use Ghigliotti as his FLIR expert in next month's trial, replacing Dr. Edward Allard, who recently had a stroke. …….. On April 17 Caddell asked Special Counsel John Danforth to interview Ghigliotti and spend time in his laboratory reviewing his findings. He stated that he had been trying to reach Ghigliotti but hadn't been able to locate him. He was already dead……."

WorldNetDaily 5/13/00 Sarah Foster "…..… In a brief statement released Thursday, the Laurel Police Department said that according to the autopsy report, the unattended death was of natural causes: specifically, a heart attack brought on by arteriosclerosis, or hardening of the arteries. The press release also stated that the department's investigative services division had terminated further investigation in the matter. …..The decision was not unexpected. ……."

WorldNetDaily 5/13/00 Sarah Foster "….. "I'm not going to quarrel with the ME's [medical examiner's] report," attorney Michael Caddell, of Houston, Texas, told WorldNetDaily….. He had planned to bring Ghigliotti into the case as an expert witness. …… "The death of Carlos is a tremendous loss for our case," Caddell said. "There's no one who had done as much work of the same quality in this area as Carlos." ……When news of Ghigliotti's death was made public, suspicions as to its cause were raised by those involved in ongoing investigations and litigation. The official findings by the Baltimore Medical Examiner's Office have not assuaged these concerns -- not when three other experts in the same field of work as Ghigliotti and who share his conviction that the flashes on the FLIR tapes show gunshots have recently had close calls with death. …."

WorldNetDaily 5/13/00 Sarah Foster "….. There is Edward Allard, who appears in the documentary, "Waco: The Rules of Engagement," produced by Michael McNulty. On March 15 he suffered a stroke, from which he has still not fully recovered. ……"

WorldNetDaily 5/13/00 Sarah Foster "….. Then there is FLIR expert Fred Zegel, a long-time associate of Allard at the Pentagon, who at first disputed his colleague's contention that the flashes were gunfire. But, as he studied the footage, he changed his mind and has agreed to be a witness for the plaintiffs. In April, he reportedly went to a public auction where he collapsed and was rushed to a hospital where he was diagnosed as having blood poisoning. He was in a serious condition for 10 days. ….."

WorldNetDaily 5/13/00 Sarah Foster "….. Lastly, there's Maurice "Mac" Cox, who according to his website on Waco, is a "recently retired mathematician/imagery analyst with 33 years experience in the technical intelligence field." Cox served as a consultant for McNulty's documentary. McNulty told WorldNetDaily Cox had recently had a serious renal [kidney] infection. However, he noted, Cox has had a "renal condition" for a number of years. ……"

WorldNetDaily 5/13/00 Sarah Foster "…..In [McNulty] his words, "I'm thinking about his death and the sequence of circumstances surrounding the illnesses of Fred Zegel, Allard and Mac Cox -- that's a lot of coincidences in a very short period of time -- involving four men who basically were all involved in one narrow issue in one very sensitive lawsuit. That's four of our FLIR experts -- but I've not heard of any of the government experts having problems like this. That's why it's weird. It's just too many coincidences." ……"

WorldNetDaily 5/13/00 Sarah Foster "….. Hardy told WorldNetDaily that upon learning of the autopsy results, he questioned an anesthesiologist who, in turn, backed the findings of the medical examiner. "He told me, 'Hey, it can happen,'" Hardy recalled. "Sure Carlos was young but my friend said death from a heart attack like that is not unknown. Apparently, if you've got bad genes and bad luck, you can be gone before you know it." …….Hardy added that although the anesthesiologist wasn't concerned or surprised about Ghigliotti's death, he was deeply "mystified" upon learning of the sudden illness of Fred Zegel. ...... "He said if you are healthy enough to go to a public auction, how do you suddenly become unconscious from it in the space of an hour. Allard? No problem. He was an older man who had a stroke. Carlos'? Bad luck. Maybe. But I would still like a second opinion," said Hardy. ……."

Waco 93 message board 5/12/00 Freeper Ada Coddington "……. The police department attended Mr. Ghigliotti's autopsy in late April and was aware early on that his death was likely due to massive arterial blockage and resulting heart attack, according to the lieutenant I spoke w/ this afternoon (Wednesday 5/11). He said the damage to the heart and arterial blockage was evident. But he added that both local police and Maryland Medical Examiner's office chose to delay release of any detailed information until toxicology screens were completed - all due to the level of attention of the case, the lieutenant indicated (And forgive me for not listing his name. I have my notes, including his name, at my office. If it becomes an issue, will gladly provide). …..

…..Those toxicology screens turned up evidence of only one chemical susbstance - an over-the-counter flu medication called Thera-Flu, the Lt. said. There was nothing else detected in Mr. Ghigliotti's bloodstream, and the levels of Thera-Flu were consistent w/ recently ingested, normal dose, the Lt. said. Police found an empty packet of Thera-Flu beside the air mattress that Mr. Ghigliotti used for a bed. Mr. Ghigliotti was found in that bed, wearing bedclothes, the Lt. said. The bed was in one of two rooms of his office - a room filled with elaborate equipment for video monitoring, editing and computer evaluation, the Lt. said. All of this machinery was turned off, and it appeared that Mr. Ghigliotti had laid down feeling ill. The Lt. added that a small portion of sandwich was found in his stomach - recently eaten, according to the autopsy exam. More of the sandwich was found on a plate beside the air mattress - some of it eaten by Mr. Ghigliotti's pet cats who lived with him in his office/apartment, the Lt. said. …….

…….Police did confirm that Mr. Ghigliotti did live in the office where he was found, the Lt. said.

……The exact time of death will probably never be known, the Lt. said, but the ME's office has indicated that they believe Mr. Ghigliotti had been dead for about three weeks. A final written autopsy report, detailing the finding of arterial blockage & heart attack, will be delivered to Laurel PD w/i the next week or so. It must be reviewed by the Maryland state's attorney's office before public release, the Lt. said. ……"

Freeper adds "……. Can't wait to hear Maryland state's attorney's office spin on this. Gov. Glendening and Attorney General J. Joseph Curran, Jr. are Dem party footstools for Clinton. We can be sure that DOJ has the final review and edit on this. From AG j. Joseph Curran, Jr.'s web page;
"As Attorney General, I am the chief lawyer in the state.
My office represents the state in all matters in which the state is a party or has an interest."
That is to say the sword and shield of the Democratic Party, much like the KGB. He's the man behind Montanarelli's prosecution of Linda Tripp. ......"

Alex Jones Radio Show, Interview of Michael McNulty 5/4/00 "…… An Interview of Michael McNulty, Producer of WACO, A New Revelation. Alex Jones Radio Show, May 3, 2000
MM: And at this particular point, I would say this: the timing of Mr. Ghigliotti's death, the timing of Ed Allard's stroke and one other issue: Fred Segal, who is Ed Allard's counterpart on the Branch Davidian team, a well-known FLIR expert, also had an incident. He went and attended the test at Ft. Hood on March the 19th. After departing, he went to upstate New York for an auction he was attending and collapsed - unconscious. He was taken to the hospital. He had a high fever and it seemed he was suffering from blood poisoning. They treated him for ten days with intravenous, high-dosage, high-powered antibiotics. And he did recover.
But those three incidents: Ghigliotti's death, Allard's stroke and Segal's bout with blood poisoning - - had it just been left unattended, it would have killed him, is very curious and very disturbing. So I am very anxious to find out what had happened to Mr. Ghigliotti and I'm hopeful that it was natural and that this was all just circumstances. But, you know, it really leaves me uncomfortable thinking that all these circumstances could happen to the same group of men who are central to the investigation of the FLIR, all in one particular time frame. It's just a lot of coincidences.
AJ: And they tested Segal for anthrax.
MM: No, if it had been anthrax, Mr. Segal would be dead by now.
AJ: Well, I don't know if you saw the Clinton Chronicles and some of those other films?
MM: He would also have symptoms, also.
AJ: Yea, exactly, just right off the bat, when you mentioned the Segal thing, I had been hearing about it, but I hadn't confirmed it, so I didn't talk about it. I heard that, but that protracted sickness, at a low dosage level, some of the folks around Clinton, exposing some of his drug dealing, came up with anthrax..
MM: Segal was definitely blood poisoning. He was not exhibiting any other symptoms. I saw him this weekend, he's fine.
AJ: Well, I understand. You're saying he probably would have died if he wouldn't have been put in the hospital. It's blood poisoning.
MM: Right.
AJ: Did they find out what type of blood poisoning?
MM: All they knew was that there appeared to be a site at which the bacteria entered on his leg. Hey, in Texas, with all the creepy, crawling critters, you can contract blood poisoning, the kind that leaves that wonderful red line that goes from the wound up towards your heart. The standard, everyday, it-will-kill-you-dead if you don't treat it blood poisoning.
AJ: Interesting. And he got sick right after he left Ft. Hood.
MM: Shortly after.
AJ: Oh. Oh, well it was just accidental.
MM: Well, I don't know anything more than you do. (laughs)
AJ: I hear you.
MM: Let's take some calls.....

LAUREL POLICE DEPARTMENT, MD Freeper OutSpot 5/11/00 "…… ***MUST CITE FREEREPUBLIC.COM*** I just got of the phone with the Laurel Police Department. They are in possession of a press release relating to the death of Carlos Ghigliotti. …….. Autopsy results from Carlos Ghigliotti as reported from the office of the Chief Medical Examiner for the State of Maryland. … Mr. Ghigliotti died of natural causes. Cause of death was a heart attack which resulted from arterial cirrhosis. ….. The investigation into the death of Carlos Ghigliotti is therefore being terminated by the Laurel Police Department. …..For copies of the press release call
LAUREL POLICE DEPARTMENT
tel. (301) 498-0092
The doctor who performed the Autopsy was
Dr. Pestaner
Assistant Medical Examiner at the
OFFICE OF CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER FOR THE STATE OF MARYLAND
tel. (401) 333-3250 ….."

The Associated Press 5/14/00 "……."We're not giving up, but I don't know how we'll replace Carlos Ghigliotti," Davidian attorney Mike Caddell told the Waco Tribune-Herald. "He had done more than anyone who has looked at this subject." ……..The plaintiffs had already notified the Waco federal court that they planned to use Ghigliotti as an expert witness in the trial, set to begin June 19 in Waco. …..Ghigliotti was to replace Edward Allard, a physicist from the Army's Night Vision Laboratory who suffered a stroke this spring. It remains unknown whether Allard will play a role in the upcoming trial before U.S. District Judge Walter Smith Jr., who is presiding over the Davidian lawsuit in Waco. ……Caddell said he is working with Laurel police to gain access to Ghigliotti's workplace. He expects to be given permission to enter the facility next week. In addition, Caddell will take the depositions of British infrared experts, possibly in early June. ……The experts, who work for Vector Data Systems, were among those who conducted a March 19 field test at Fort Hood near Killeen. The company submitted its analysis of the test last week Smith. ……"

Washington Weekly 5/9/00 Rep Traficant "…….Mr. Speaker, Carl Ghigliotti, the 42-year-old scientist who investigated the Waco massacre, whose body has been missing for 2 weeks, was found dead. Ghigliotti is the man who flat out said, 'The FBI is lying about Waco. The FBI did fire automatic weapons into the burning building.' …….. Something is wrong here, Mr. Speaker. Records now show the FBI lodged an alleged or false child abuse charge against the Davidians. The FBI denied, then admitted, using tear gas. The FBI confiscated, then supposedly lost, vital autopsy evidence that would prove what happened in Waco. …….. Beam me up. We have developed a stone cold police state in America, believe me, from Waco, Ruby Ridge, to Miami, Florida. Every American knows it, no one is doing anything about it. There must be a full investigation into the death of Carl Ghigliotti……. I yield back the need to pass some oversight on this Justice Department and pass my bill, H.R. 4105……"

106th CONGRESS 2d Session H. R. 4105 "….. To establish the Fair Justice Agency as an independent agency for investigating and prosecuting alleged misconduct, criminal activity, corruption, or fraud by an officer or employee of the Department of Justice. …."

Associated Press 5/14/00 "……A lawyer representing surviving Branch Davidians in a wrongful-death lawsuit against the government says the death of an infrared expert who contended that shots were fired by the government during the final moments of the Waco siege is a major setback in the case……... [Carlos]He told The Washington Post that he had determined that repeated flashes on the video came from government gunfire - and assessment mirroring the analysis of two retired Defense Department experts the sect's lawyers hired. …….Ghigliotti was to replace Edward Allard, a physicist from the Army's Night Vision Laboratory who suffered a stroke this spring. It remains unknown whether Allard will play a role in the upcoming trial before U.S. District Judge Walter Smith Jr., who is presiding over the Davidian lawsuit in Waco………Caddell said he is working with Laurel police to gain access to Ghigliotti's workplace. He expects to be given permission to enter the facility next week. In addition, Caddell will take the depositions of British infrared experts, possibly in early June. ….."

Freeper Dave Hardy 5/4/00 "…….Covenantor writes: First, heartfelt thanks for responding to the questions that have been raised on this forum, as well as the calm you've maintained on this sometimes rowdy thread/s. Re: the office....do you recall the number of adjacent offices or perhaps their tenants? I had planned to swing past this week just to get a sense of the place and surroundings. The un-noticed odor really puzzles me if the adjacent offices are occupied. How could one work there without complaining long and loud about it? ………. [Hardy replies] I didn't really look at the other offices. As I recall, they all had solid doors, no glass panes alongside the doors, that sort of thing. I have no idea why someone wouldn't have noticed the odor--I'd have expected it to get sucked into the cooling ductwork, if nothing else. ……"

Freeper Dave Hardy 5/4/00 "…….Finally one hopes that Carlos had back-ups off-site in a safe place, a seemingly prudent precaution in light of your conversations. If the MD State Police are involved in the investigation, doj already has everything Carllos had in the office or home. [hardy reply] What? You mean the Maryland State Police are something less than totally reliable, apolitical creatures? It can't be! : ) ……….. I dunno how he backed up. It would have been quite a task. I forget exactly the specs he gave on his computers, but they were pretty impressive. He did video, and wasn't a fellow to think that a 5 gig hard drive was big! ………… While I'm at it... One of the earlier posts seemed to say that I'd said Carlos described the words on the FLIR audiotrack, about the fire engines. He didn't. He told me to listen to it... and there the audio track is. It speaks for itself.. ……"

Freeper Ol’Dan Tucker 5/2/00 "……Do you remember when I said that the fall-back position for the feds' cover story about the gunfire recorded on the FLIR being a fire-fight between the feds and the Davidians? I believe this was the source --Carlos Ghigliotti. ……….New York Post 1999? Brian Blomquist - "... He said the tapes also show that the Branch Davidians were firing on the FBI agents during the siege, meaning the FBI could have returned fire based on the rules of engagement..."

Freeper Ol’ Dan Tucker 5/2/00 "……Indeed, it appears that they could use Carlos Ghigliotti’s statements to argue the Feds were only returning fire had they any need to admit to the presence of gunfire on the FLIR test. With the Vector findings being what they are, I’m very concerned! I understand there will be no jury now. Previously that would have not been alarming to me, but having added quite a bit to the "theory" I’m now wondering if the long prison terms given to the Davidians by usurping some procedures at trial – was not a matter of outrage at the time but rather a necessary step to gain control over the survivors in the interest of national security. Sadly, if that is the case the truth will once again be buried in a non-jury trial - though the families might receive substantial damages… (sigh) …..Add my sigh to yours... "

Freeper Dave Hardy 5/3/00 "….I would like to hear your analysis of the video showing the guy ducking! This would support the notion that they were very aware of the location of cameras and kept their greatest activity to the rear of the building. BTW, it appears they did the same in the Elian raid – guns were used in the rear only. I find that part intriguing as well. Since Hardy wrote that he's seen it before, there might be a good chance that it's on either WTROE, WANR or possibly Waco II. I'll check tonight and let you know. [Hardy reply] I had seen some footage resembling that, but I dunno where. My knowledge of it is: (1) Carlos said it had been shot by some media cameraman; (2) he said it showed events near the storm shelter or pit; (3) it was *after* the fire broke out; and (4) it was obviously shot from a great distance using fairly powerful telephoto. In the foreground, you see bushes and trees, out of focus. Beyond them you see some tanks. Beyond those you see FBI agents moving about. I can't be more specific than that. ……… To spot the agent won't be easy. If you can find a tape like that, keep rerunning it, focusing on each human figure, one at a time. I suspect any of us could look at it five times and never see the figure. It took Carlos there, putting his finger on the screen, and saying to watch this one blurry figure…….."

Freeper Ol’ Dan Tucker 5/4/00 "……. Thanks for the info. I have found two different clips that are a little like what you've described. They were both shot at about the same time frame and were shot from two slightly different camera angles. The one on the left was taken from Waco II: The Big Lie Continues. I've outlined the tank in bright green and the two feds in red. There is about 30 seconds or so of video in this clip and there is quite a bit of activity as the feds move from this position toward the direction of the front door. ……[photos]…. The one on the right was taken from Waco: A New Revelation and is much shorter than the one in Waco II. The tank is fairly clear. The feds are outlined in red. There appears to be something on the ground between the two feds that is drawing their attention. It shows up in these pics as a white blob. This section is a part of the tape where Doyle talks about his exit from the building. ……… There is a third clip in WANR where a fed exits out the back of a Bradley that's parked down by the underground shelter and appears to assume a shooting stance for a brief instant, then disappears back inside the Bradley, but this clip was shot around the time that the white smoke appeared from inside the shelter. Note that I've color-corrected this image from what was shown in WANR to clarify the details in the shadows. Click on the thumbnail to view the full-size image. …….."

Freeper Dave Hardy 5/4/00 "….Also, I’m extremely anxious to hear what you find tonight on the "guy ducking" and the "water inconsistencies." The research is invaluable in sorting out the accurate details and sources! ......... [Reply from Ol’ Dan Tucker: ] I checked and there's nothing on the tapes I've got that show the guy ducking and the FLIR footage doesn't show the correct angle of the water tanks to be able to make any sort of a determination about the level of water in them. Dan ………. [Reply]I sorta get tired reposting the same stuff, and it seems a statement is no sooner made than it is misconstrued. The guy ducking is NOT on the FLIR, but on a media-made ordinary videotape. Carlos' remark about the level of the water is not based on FLIR made the day of the fire, but on FLIR made on the nights preceding it……"

Freeper Ol’ Dan Tucker 5/5/00 "…… [Original posting] Also, I’m extreme