The 5/28/00 Washington Post story by Richard Leiby starts with the writer apparently getting a call from the police at Ghigliotti's office where he is dead. It appears to me that the police hit redial on his phone to see the recipient of his last call!

If indeed Ghigliotti's last call was to a reporter at the Washington Post, I suggest this from Hardy's last conversions with him is extremely important (emphasis mine:) 4/30/00 David Hardy ".......I said I'd heard statements like that -- the truth about Waco could not be explored, for fear of violence, but discarded them as agency excuses. ..... Carlos said no -- the fear is real, and it's not poppycock. The truth is really that grim. The Committee had not yet figured out how to reveal the truth without running this risk, and until it did, it had to disavow his work and sit on the other information. Much of the data was in the hands of certain key reporters (a few of whom he named), and they were sitting on it for the same reason. But it would come out in time......"


The basic theory, shown by the blue commentary, is this: Koresh and a few insiders had developed a weapon of mass destruction (WMD) and had the method and will to use it. The heavy, urgent military involvement from Nov/Dec 92 forward suggests a real and present threat to national security. The obvious events of Apr 19, 93 coupled with known exhaustive efforts to conceal every trace of military involvement suggests that in the end, it was a military mop-up, utterly eliminating the "enemy" and all material, with the added twist of removing all evidence of military involvement, concealing the true purpose and therefore all culpability of the highest level decision makers.

Originally, I thought the National Security threat was probably fabricated to keep the silence and coerce the grunts into doing something they would otherwise loathe. I now suspect the threat was real and present. My opinion changed when I started building the timelines and could see more clearly the building weight and urgency of military support, the stunning effort to cover-up evidence, and recently, the very peculiar activity in the civil case concerning the Judge, the attorneys, the survivors, various witnesses and plaintiffs. And then I read the Wilcher report which contained a number of assertions that strangely fit the theory extremely well.



In all the research I’ve seen on Free Republic and in many hours of searching through Internet resources, I have yet to uncover any BATF (or FBI) action which has received the magnitude or level of military involvement that we see in Waco:

The Secretary of Defense
The Joint Chiefs of Staff
The U.S. Army Chemical Biological Defense Command
The Joint Task Force (JTF-6)
The Special Operations Command, Combat Action Group (CAG) Green Berets, Delta Force
The British SAS
The Texas National Guard
The Alabama National Guard

And on the intelligence side, both the CIA and the FBI.

The search found some incidents of BATF requests for military training but nothing with a similar military involvement in BATF enforcement of domestic firearm laws, and certainly nothing that would reach all the way up to the Joint Chiefs and the Secretary of Defense.

Military involvement only appeared where there were potentially dangerous biologicals and chemicals – but even so, not one of them is comparable to Waco in depth or magnitude:

Byers – ATF served a search warrant, found tons of some identifiable and some unidentifiable chemicals. Army Corps of Engineers were on site to make sure everything remained stable.

Bell – In an IRS raid, dozens of containers were found in his garage containing volatile solvents, explosives ingredients, sodium cyanide, nitric acid, and diisopropyl fluorophosphate--one of several ingredients that, if properly mixed, form nerve gas.

Ellison/Miles – Federal agents found 33 gallons of cyanide in a raid of The Covenant, The Sword and Arm of the Lord compound. (80 members)

Harris/Leavitt – FBI arrested two men under suspicion of possession of biological agents. Military and FBI officials tested the suspected toxin at Nellis Air Force Base

Lavy – arrested on an Arkansas farm where 30 federal agents along with US Army biological warfare experts retrieved 130 grams of ricin.

It appears whatever was at Waco was much more dangerous than any of these.

In my view, the heavy military involvement which was so meticulously concealed – therefore points strongly to a high quality biochem - possibly military in origin, possibly stolen.


Emphasis shown in red.

00 XXX 1976 to Waco Seige - Bill Buford ATF chief in Little Rock

31 JAN 1985 Koresh in Israel where he started having visions

While in Israel, Koresh began having "visions" and developed his interpretation of end times prophecies. After leaving Israel, Koresh recruited followers from various countries. He seized leadership control of the Davidians and Mt Carmel in a shootout with Roden. Koresh’s version of end time prophecy had himself and the Davidians in the center of an earthly, imminent, violent judgment: The Feds Meet Self-styled "God's Anointed Avenger" By Gretchen Passantino 1992. "…...From 1986 - 1991 he [Koresh] recruited new members in Canada, Hawaii, California, England, and Australia…… Distinctive teachings of the Branch Davidians include that Howell is Jesus Christ, that they will be God's instruments to implement God's final judgment ……. He identifies himself with Elijah, who used God's power to defeat the false prophets of Baal at biblical Israel's Mount Carmel. He identifies with David, the king who subdued the enemies of God through warfare. He takes his last name, Koresh, a designation of the Persian king Cyrus, because he believes he, like Cyrus, is anointed by God to re-establish the true faith by destroying the ungodly. Most importantly, he identifies himself with the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, especially as Christ is described in Revelation 5, 10, and 18 -- the avenging Son of God who will destroy all the unrighteous with his heavenly army. One of his favorite self-descriptions is from Isaiah 11:4 -- "He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked." Taking the language of Isaiah 63 and Revelation 18, he believes the "Day of Vengeance" has come, and he is the executioner. …... "

03 NOV 1987 To settle the BD leadership dispute w/Koresh, Roden dug up a man dead 25 years, put the casket in the chapel, and said that whoever could raise this man from the dead was the one to lead the Davidians; Koresh reported the action to the Sheriff's Department but was told his word was not enough, so he went out to take pictures of the body; Roden caught them, there was a gunfight; Koresh and seven other Davidians were charged with attempted murder .

00 XXX 1988 (forward) 40 foreign nationals from Jamaica, United Kingdom, Israel, Australia, and New Zealand entered the US and used the address of the Mt. Carmel as their point of contact; most of the foreign nationals overstayed their entry permits or visas

00 MAY 1992 Lieutenant Gene Barber, McLennan County Sheriff’s Department, Waco Texas received information from UPS employee Gilbreath; though he had made deliveries there for years, Gilbreath became concerned when he would stop at Mag-Bag to make a delivery, a phone call would be made to Mt Carmel and he would be instructed to go there, but when he got to Mt Carmel, he saw several manned observation posts and believed the observers to be armed; two cases of inert hand grenades and a quantity of black gunpowder were delivered by Gilbreath to Mag-Bag; payment was in cash

Wilcher had information that Koresh was a CIA operative, a sleeper agent that was accidentally triggered. I don’t know if that is true, but I do believe Koresh developed or had the contacts necessary to carry out the visions he had in Israel and became obsessed to actualize them. I believe some of the illegal immigrants may have possessed critical knowledge which may account for the British SAS being involved in the siege.

At Mt Carmel, Koresh’s unconventional style of living, his taking of so many "wives," his preparations for warfare all tend to confirm his true belief in his visions and his determination to make it so.

I believe Koresh was already under investigation by intelligence and/or military, either national or international, when the firearms investigation of Koresh began on a tip from a UPS delivery man to the local sheriff’s department. The BATF was brought in without knowing about the other investigators and BATF began processing the case in a normal fashion.

Clinton was running for president, he had a long term friend in the Little Rock BATF (Buford) and had 4 bodyguards who would later enter Mt Carmel with Buford as BATF agents. All five would be shot, 4 execution style, but Buford would survive.

04 JUN 1992 Davy Aguilera BAFT Special Agent met with Barber

08 JUN 1992 Aguilera interviewed Dave Kaupert, Olympic Arms Inc; Glen Deruiter, Manager, Sarco Inc.; Cynthia Aleo, Owner/Manager, Nasard Gun Parts

07 JUL 1992 ATF Agents Jimmy Ray Skinner and Davy Aguilera visited McMahon (Koresh associate) - while there, McMahon called Koresh; Koresh invited the agents out to inspect what he had but they declined

00 NOV 1992 Clinton Elected; ATF agents discussed the need for military support with Lt Col Walker, the ATF’s Defense Department liaison.

00 DEC 1992 BATF Director Stephen Higgins said there was no probable cause to obtain a warrant; ATF agents requested CQB training by US Army Special Forces (after incident Treasury investigation does not refer to the request); US Attorney Johnston said the ATF had discussed capturing Koresh outside the compound and then searching inside but "inexplicably" the plans shifted to a "big paramilitary" raid.....

I believe that shortly after Clinton was elected, the other investigation(s) of Koresh became known to the BATF. It was probably described as national security and few details were offered, but the military had to become involved. The BATF has been used to shutdown operations for other agencies, so it would be natural for them to be the "front" for eliminating a civilian threat of this nature where the military or intelligence - cannot operate in the open:

Ahwatukee Foothill News 1997 Phoenix, AZ about Byers "……In October 1997, the ATF and Maricopa County Sheriffs Deputies served a search warrant on his ranch on 27th Avenue in New River, where they found tons of some identifiable and some unidentifiable chemicals. Some were blown up immediately, but authorities were nervous about moving some of the other volatile explosives and decided instead to burn them. …..…..The ATF then began quietly hauling truckloads of the munitions away from the ranch. Residents around the ranch were not notified or evacuated when the removal began….. Bettendorf said Army Corps of Engineer members have been on site 24-hours a day in New River since October to make sure all remains stable…….. Byers claimed that he was being harassed by the federal government because of his past involvement with the CIA……" "… Four weeks later, on a Monday morning in March, IRS officials encountered a terrible nose-burning stench as they arrived at their building in Vancouver, the Portland suburb where Bell lived. Investigators traced the smell to a welcome mat dosed with propanethiol. The chemical is used by utilities in minuscule concentrations to give natural gas its noticeable smell. "It's Bell," Gordon told his boss. "I'm sure of it." Bell had attempted twice to buy propanethiol from a chemical-supply company in Milwaukee, Gordon then learned. Worried that the stink bomb was a trial run for something much worse, on April 1, authorities raided Bell's home. They seized five computers and three semiautomatic assault rifles, then opened his garage door. Before them stood dozens of containers filled with chemicals. There were volatile solvents, explosives ingredients, sodium cyanide, nitric acid, and diisopropyl fluorophosphate--one of several ingredients that, if properly mixed, form nerve gas--all in a residential neighborhood. "The level and type of chemicals were extremely unusual," said Leroy Loiselle, who managed the cleanup for the Environmental Protection Agency. "You don't need nitric acid to keep aphids off your flowers." ……… On Bell's computers, Gordon found two other items: the names and home addresses of over 100 public officials--IRS employees, FBI agents, local police officers--and a 169-page document, The Terrorist's Handbook, with detailed instructions for making chemical weapons and high explosives. Bell's friends told investigators that he had tried using green beans to make botulin toxin, which causes botulism, and that he claimed to have successfully made sarin, the nerve gas used by Japanese cultists in their 1995 attack on the Tokyo subway…." Natural Resources Policy Studies Division 2/2/97 "……Perhaps the most well-known case of chemical terrorism occurred on March 20, 1995, when the Aum Shinrikyo cult released sarin gas in the Tokyo subway system. Although the Tokyo attack was not carried out as effectively as planned, 12 people died and 5,500 people were sent to area hospitals for treatment. As disturbing as the attack is the fact that the cult made the gas. The Aum Shinrikyo cult obtained the capability to produce sarin in 1993 and began manufacturing it in 1994. The cult may have planned other attacks. However, in September 1996, acting on a tip from a cult follower, Tokyo police recovered a bottle containing about an ounce of the liquid nerve gas VX—enough gas to kill about 15,000 people.3 …………Biological agents, though exotic, may be the easiest, most insidious NBC weapon to make or obtain.. ….. In a 1992 report, the congressional Office of Technology Assessment stated that "second-year or third-year medical or microbiology students would have enough laboratory experience to prepare an agent with minimal danger to themselves."4 This assertion proved prophetic. In December 1995, army veteran and "survivalist" Thomas Lewis Lavy was arrested on an Arkansas farm where thirty federal agents, along with U.S. Army biological warfare experts, retrieved 130 grams of ricin—enough to kill 30,000 people. Ricin, a derivative of the castor bean, is one of the most dangerous known toxins. Agents also seized from Lavy three books that detailed how to make ricin and distribute the poison, as well as a supply of castor beans. ….." In 1985, "…Federal agents found 33 gallons of cyanide when they invaded The Covenant, The Sword and Arm of the Lord compound in northwestern Arkansas in 1985. CSA leader James Ellison said he and extremist Bob Miles had discussed poisoning municipal water supplies. Four members of the Minnesota Patriots Council were convicted in 1995 of conspiracy to use the deadly toxin ricin to kill federal agents and law enforcement officers. …." Cleveland Plain Dealer Michael Sangiacomo "…… One of the men arrested by the FBI near Las Vegas on a charge of possessing a lethal biological agent has been warning since 1995 that Americans face the threat of a bacteriological attack -- from Iraq or even the U.S. government. …….Harris and William Leavitt, who owns biology laboratories in Logandale, Nev., and Frankfurt, Germany, were charged Thursday with conspiracy to possess a biological agent for use as a weapon. …….. The FBI said one of the suspects bragged in Las Vegas that he had enough to wipe out the city and last year laid out a plan to unleash bubonic plague on New York City subways in a massacre that would ruin the economy, surprise the military and be blamed on the Iraqis…….. Harris, identified by the FBI as a member of the white-supremacist Aryan Nations, was previously given 18 months' probation after pleading guilty to illegally obtaining bubonic plague bacteria through the mail in 1995. Last year he pleaded guilty to one count of wire fraud for claiming that he was buying the pathogens for a laboratory where he worked. He was ordered to stop telling people that he works for the CIA. ……. Aryan Nations founder Richard Butler said Thursday that Harris joined the group in the early 1990s and left in 1995. ……. Carl Raschke, a University of Denver professor and expert on domestic terrorists and cult groups, said Harris was saying on the Internet last summer that the federal government would create a bio-terrorism incident and then blame it on Iraq. Raschke monitors such Internet activity daily. ……In a 1996 interview on "The Intelligence Report," a shortwave radio program produced by Wolverine Productions, Harris talked at length about how to reconstitute dehydrated anthrax and bubonic plague bacteria and distribute them in major U.S. cities through the exhaust systems of cars and airplanes. ……According to Neff, Harris described how someone could create a deadly broth from the anthrax culture, put it in a pressurized paint sprayer and then spread the deadly germs from a low-flying airplane -- killing at least 100,000 people and still be undetectable. ...... According to an FBI affidavit made public Thursday regarding the arrests of Harris and Leavitt, the FBI said that last summer Harris described plans for the New York attack. "Harris told a group of plans to place a 'globe' of bubonic plague toxins in a New York subway station, where it would be broken by a passing subway train, causing hundreds of thousands of deaths. Harris stated that the Iraqis would be blamed for that event." ...... "

(If Koresh had cooperated in the initial raid it probably would have gone down like the one with Byer or Bell. There were no ambulances on 2/28/93, so I suspect they either expected Koresh to surrender, or they intended to eliminate him and arrest the others and seize all the unassembled WMD components.)

The trick with the military involvement was that the BATF could not afford to pay the tab for the Mt Carmel raid, so the military and the BATF concocted a scheme to fabricate a drug nexus. All costs were be paid this way because it was a military/intelligence operation - even the FBI’s involvement was paid (according to Ghigliotti:)

Dave Hardy on his discussions with Ghigliotti before his death: "…On the side (and I have no idea why he was analyzing this) he said it had been determined that almost the entire Waco operation, not only 2/28 but the siege, had been improperly financed from money that law enforcement was supposed to use only in the war on drugs. He said there was plenty of documentation here, showing flow of money. In the 2/28 videotape, the ATF agents are all trying on new uniforms, new equipment -- everything down to the computers in the media area of the raid HQ were bought out of money supposed to be used only in drug enforcement. He said that much or all of the siege had been financed the same way. There were written standards in the gov't for when the drug enforcement money could be used, and these could be shown to have been violated in black and white terms. A considerable amount of money had been, well, embezzled, to support the effort…."

My thinking is that Clinton knew the details of the WMD threat and discussed some of it with Buford and some of it was made known to his select BATF team, the 4 bodyguards. It appears one or more of them was designated to assassinate Koresh in the raid, but having failed, all were killed – except Buford who I believe was hushed by a visit at the Waco hospital the next day from Roger Altman of the Treasury Department, also a FOB

Freeper archy "…Also: it's clear that the initial contact with Koresh by Conway LeBleu of the *special unit* of the New Orleans BATF office was a burst of automatic weapons fire at Koresh from the silenced H&K MP5SD submachinegun LeBleu was carrying, which wounded Koresh- and Le Bleu was among those killed on the structure's roof, so there will be no testimony from him one way or the other. Assuming that both during the initial raid by BATF and the later FBI efforts it was imperative that Koresh be killed, and that BOTH actions were essentially those of federal police death squads, what would have been so pressing that the FBI would have helped the BATF *clean up their mess?*…."

00 JAN 1993 - Gordon Novel (CIA affiliated, investigator for Davidian civil attorney Ramsey Clark) heard from a "close friend" Mike Hall that the Waco raid would not succeed. Novel called General O'Graham (Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, and on the Board of Directors of Novel's security company) and asked "Danny, what is going on?" Novel asked. "He says: 'I don't know.' He says, 'but whatever it is,' he says, 'it's national security.'" ....

WorldNetDaily is in receipt of a letter from the United States Special Operations Command in response to a Freedom of Information Act request seeking military documents regarding Waco. The letter explained why the military has classified some of those documents: "Portions of the documents were found to contain information concerning military plans, weapons, or operations; and vulnerabilities or capabilities or systems, installations, projects, or plans relating to the national security, the unauthorized disclosure of which reasonably could be expected to cause serious damage to the national security." David M. Bresnahan

06 JAN 1993 - Texas National Guard Counterdrug UC-26 overflight of Davidian residence and Mag Bag (auto body shop) showed a "hot spot" inside the residence and 3 persons as "sentries";

Archy "…Fairchild UC26…….The C-26 is operated exclusively by the Air and Army National Guard and was first delivered in 1989. They have quick change passenger, medevac, or cargo interiors. The C-26A is the civilian equivalent of the Fairchild Metro III with the C-26B being equivalent to the Fairchild Metro 23. The C-26B(CD) [Counter Drug] and the UC-26 are National Guard Bureau aircraft used to support the Air National Guard in drug control operations. The UC-26C is a derivative of the Fairchild Merlin IVC. The C-26B provides time-sensitive movement of personnel and cargo, as well as limited medical evacuation. The UC-26C provides support to counter drug (CD) operations. Additionally, up to ten ANG C-26Bs are being modified to carry specialized electronic equipment used to support CD operations.......

The aircraft represents an on-call, rapid response, modern air transport for high priority resupply and movement of key personnel to remote, unserviced or feeder sites. Specifically, the aircraft is used to deliver repair parts, equipment, technical teams, crash and accident investigation teams. In its role, such functions as range clearance, Medical Evacuation (MEDEVAC), administrative movement of personnel, transportation connections and courier flights are accomplished......

On 23 January 1998 the US Air Force Aeronautical Systems Center Reconnaissance Systems Program Office (ASC/RAKBL) awarded a $5,489,211 contract to Versatron Corp. for a replacement Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR) System for the Air National Guard C-26B Aircraft. The system is a third generation detector technology, non developmental item consisting of eleven installed and fully integrated systems and two complete spares. The FLIR system includes a Thermal Imaging System (TIS), color TV and Laser Range Finder all co-located in a single gimbal turret, plus any separate associated electronic units……" "….. . Treasury Department documents provided to the subcommittees indicate that at the request of ATF, Forward Looking Infrared Radar (FLIR) imaging was taken on January 6, 1993, by the Texas National Guard Counterdrug unit in a National Guard counterdrug aircraft. ….. Lt. Col. Pettit and Lieutenant Justice ``maintained that only information about grid coordinates was officially provided to ATF'' and that ``no official interpretation was ever provided to ATF regarding the `hot spot.' '' \330\ Even though ATF never sought an official interpretation,\331\ ATF agents later offered the ``hot spot'' as direct evidence of a methamphetamine lab to the military when JTF-6 requested additional proof of the drug nexus at a February 4, 1993 meeting.\332\ ……. Interviews with DEA agents have revealed that FLIR imaging is not a technique used to identify clandestine drug labs because using ``hot spots'' as signatures for methamphetamine labs is too unreliable.\334\ ….." SAIC WMD Study "….. In their State role, Guard units will be the first military response element available to support local and State agencies in response to a WMD incident. When in a State status, the National Guard is not subject to the restrictions of the Posse Comitatus Act (18 USC 1385) which prohibits Federal military units from performing law enforcement duties......." "…..Contrary to assertions by Assistant Secretary Holmes, Brig. Gen. Huffman, and Maj. Gen. Pickler, the approval process did not work as it was supposed to.\259\ First, although concerns had been raised that JTF- 6 had been providing military assistance to non-counterdrug activities, little documentation of ATF's requests for military assistance exists. Second, while some senior military officers and DEA officials had opportunities to voice concerns about ATF's alleged drug nexus, they chose not to exercise those opportunities. Third, because a few military officers identified major legal problems with the training mission and alerted senior military commanders, despite threats by other senior military officers, the mission was altered to avoid violations of the law. Finally, after Waco hearings were scheduled, the Secretary of Defense acknowledged problems with the military assistance process and created a working group to review the process.\260.……"

The Dallas Morning News 7/6/00 Lee Hancock "…. …… Under government questioning, Mr. Lattimer and Mr. Petrilli each said they expected no resistance worse than fist fights, and Mr. Lattimer said he believed the medical classes were "for practice." But Mr. Petrilli said under cross-examination that ATF originally asked for the U.S. Army to send Bradley Fighting Vehicles to use in the raid. Defense Department records indicate that the request for eight Bradleys was quickly denied because of federal limitations on military involvement in domestic police actions. …….Mr. Lattimer also conceded on cross-examination that he had never trained with special forces personnel for any other ATF operation and had never before seen agents preparing for a raid instructed on giving Ivs…."


14 JAN 1993 - Alabama National Guard under "memorandum of agreement" w/ Texas National guard conducted aerial photography; neither had sufficient authority per their own regs

15 JAN 1993 Col. Browning letter approved the 06 JAN 1993 request, to be provided by the Regional Logistics Support Office in El Paso, TX....

22 JAN 1993 Army Special Operations Command ATF "requesting a MOUT site, Bradley Fighting Vehicles, tents light sets, heaters, generators and other military items of equipment." ; Bradleys were sought to remove casualties

AP 7/5/00 "……..Under cross-examination, Petrilli acknowledged that prior to the raid, some agents were taught by personnel at Fort Hood, a nearby Army post, how to administer field intravenous lines and treat shock and gunfire wounds. He said his blood type was stenciled on his neck and leg before the raid. ……. Robert White, a former ATF agent, had testified last week that writing an agent's blood type on his body was not standard procedure and was recommended by "the military." …… The ATF brought tents, medical assistance, portable toilets and water to take care of Davidians who were to be taken into custody, Petrilli said, but never had a chance to use those supplies....... "

28 JAN 1993 (approx) ATF request for military assistance: "on-call" seven armored Bradley fighting vehicles, 100 gas masks, 500 sandbags, 90 sleeping bags, 15 night vision goggles, a water tank truck, ten tents, including one for "VIP sleeping" and one for "VIP meeting," electric generators and smoke generators "to cover two square kilometers with concealment smoke."

02 FEB 1993 Operation Alliance request of the Commanding General of JTF-6 for the use of Special Forces personnel; Lt Col Philip Lindley US Army Special Forces Command Staff Judge Advocate was notified after which the request was limited to "coordination on Army ranges and teaching ATF how to develop an operations order. ".......

03 FEB 1993 to 25 FEB 1993 - Texas National Guard conducted 5 more reconnaissance/surveillance overflights

16 FEB 1993 US Army Special Forces Command Sgt 1st Class Greg Handy, Sergeant First Class Chris Dunn and SSgt Cordell W Ackley left Fort Bliss for Fort Hood to survey training sites.

17 FEB 1993 Handy, Dunn and Ackley met with Hood's range control office to secure use of Hargrove MOUT (Military Operations Urban Terrain) Training Center; they also met with ATF agents Kenneth King and Bill Buford, team leaders of Special Response Units assigned to execute forced entries through second-floor windows at Mount Carmel.

19 FEB 1993 Handy, Dunn and Ackley returned to McGregor Range; ATF agents went over and asked Koresh to go shooting; he agreed and provided the ammunitions; the agents even handed him their guns

22 FEB 1993 Entire Detachment (Dunn, Handy, Staff Sergeant Jon F. Wilson, Ackley, Captain Clyde Moore SSgt. Michael J. Dooney, SSgt. Steven M. Fitts, SSgt. J C. Burkhardt and SSgt. Robert R. Moreland) returned to Hood; Dunn and Wilson met ATF point-of-contact, agent Kris Mayfield

23 FEB 1993 BATF Agent Darrell Dyer along with William Krone wrote a plan for the raid which was not distributed; Breault had also contacted the FBI, accusing Koresh of a number of other crimes besides child abuse. A February 23, 1993 FBI memo, obtained by the Dallas Morning News, stated that no information had been developed to verify the allegations of "child abuse and neglect, tax evasion, slavery and reports of possible mass destruction."

24 FEB 1993 At Fort Hood, ATF leaders met with the special forces troops assigned to train them; the advisers helped construct a mock-up of Mount Carmel and opened the rifle range for ATF's sharpshooters, who practiced shooting from a range of 260 meters; troops impersonated Davidians to help training.

25 FEB 1993 to 27 FEB 1993 Eight man team of Green Berets trained more than 50 ATF agents at Ft Hood with limitation: Army medics could train how to treat "battlefield" injuries but could not attend the raid, Berets could train in the use of sophisticated firearms, but could not teach them close-quarter battle tactics, Berets could teach how to develop an attack plan but not participate in preparing or rehearsing a specific plan. ; Military sources say training included flash-bangs, after-hours "room-clearing, fire-and-maneuver and building takedown" methods and "subjects Special Forces are forbidden to teach civilian law enforecement"

The Dallas Morning News 7/6/00 Lee Hancock "…. ……Mr. Petrilli and retired Houston Agent Ken Lattimer each testified that Army medics met their agents at Fort Hood on the eve of the raid and taught them how to treat gunshot wounds, including by "sucking chest wounds," and field administration of intravenous or IV fluids. They said their contingency planning also included calling in local ground ambulances and two Careflight helicopters from Fort Worth to be on standby during the raid. …….. Under government questioning, Mr. Lattimer and Mr. Petrilli each said they expected no resistance worse than fist fights, and Mr. Lattimer said he believed the medical classes were "for practice." But Mr. Petrilli said under cross-examination that ATF originally asked for the U.S. Army to send Bradley Fighting Vehicles to use in the raid. Defense Department records indicate that the request for eight Bradleys was quickly denied because of federal limitations on military involvement in domestic police actions. …….Mr. Lattimer also conceded on cross-examination that he had never trained with special forces personnel for any other ATF operation and had never before seen agents preparing for a raid instructed on giving Ivs…."

26 FEB 1993 World Trade Center bombing (FBI HRT investigating this would be sent to Waco);

Freeper roughrider "……. I can't find my earlier posts of this, so I have to type it in right from the book, BUSHWACKED BY BUSH MASTERS by Ronald Davison: ……… "It was just hours after the World Trade Center bombing that then Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary for Law Enforcement (overseer of ATF) Michael D. Langan was made aware of the proposed raid by a memorandum prepared just MINUTES after the World Trade Center bombing by Christopher Cuyler, ATF's liasion to the Treasury Department.

"Red flags must have appeared before Langan's eyes. He responded by calling a conference that included John P. Simpson, Acting Assistant Secretary for Enforcement, Stanley Morris, former Director of the U.S. Marshal's Service (now working in the Office of Enforcement), and Ronald K. Noble, Clinton's designee as Secretary for Law Enforcement in the Treasury Department. (Source: Treasury Department Report on Waco, pages 177, 178).

"They ALL agreed the raid required excessive force to execute the warrant, precautions to protect both ATF agents and Davidians were absent, and chances of achieving the mission's goal without a shoot-out were slim. Therefore, Simpson called ATF Director Higgins and directed that the raid be called off. (Treasury Report, page 179).

"Less than an hour later (if you believe the Treasury Department Report on Waco) Higgins called Simpson back and in a three-way conversation that included Noble, got them to revoke their order that had, just minutes before, concluded the raid plan was fraught with potential catastrophies that, less than 44 hours later, evolved from potential to ACTUAL CATASTROPHIES, including the deaths of both agents and Davidians."……."

28 FEB 1993 BATF raid at Davidian church near Waco, TX; several residents killed; 4 BATF raiders killed and several wounded/injured, and church leader David Koresh wounded by BATF submachinegun fire; Bill Buford injured.

The BATF went ahead with the raid after they were found out. I believe they could not do otherwise because national security was at risk.

Also the normally independent Texas Rangers were quickly deputized to the federal government, which result in controlling their activity and gagging them from being able to testify against any government interest in the future.

The media was kept 2 miles away, way out of range to pick up on the true nature of the siege. In the Justice report timeline, there are instances where the FBI asks for media cooperation, the communications between Koresh and the media is severed, and the agents are advised to be aware of the media capability to eavesdrop.

The following conversation was noted in the current civil trial at Waco. The comments made by Koresh to the local Sheriff’s Department include a warning that should be noted. By this time he had already engaged the ATF.

Mark England 6/22/00 Waco Tribune Herald "……The government also played portions of the 9-1-1 tape, trying to counter the plaintiffs' portrayal of the Davidians as the raid's victims. One dealt with a conversation between Koresh and Lynch. ……"You don't know what we have," Koresh said. "You don't know what we've got." ……."No, sir," Lynch said. ….."You'll end up like this ATF, BATF," Koresh said. "You guys, you're going to get a big butt-whipping." ……. Koresh also told Lynch, "We knew you were coming and everything. You see we knew before you even knew." …….."

Dallas Morning News 3/26/93 Lee Hancock "...... And authorities also discovered dozens of pistols and dozens of barrels for M-16s, AR-15s and other weapons. …..Also taken from the wreckage were an unspecified number of gas masks, one chemical warfare suit, several kevlar tactical vests and other body armor, including at least eight kelvar helmets. …….………."

00 MAR 1993 Secret CIA meeting concerning CAG (Combat Action Group) participation in Waco (CAG participation was authorized by Joint Chiefs of Staff); General Peter Schoomaker (had once headed the Army's secret anti-terrorist unit Delta Force and now is at U.S. Special Forces Command at Macdill Air Force Base in Florida) visited Waco and later attended briefings with Reno

01 MAR 1993 - 19 APR 1993 FBI requests for military assistance: the loan of M-1 Abrams tanks, helicopters and big combat engineering vehicles, training in the use of 40 mm grenade launchers; at least one commando from the elite British Strategic Air Service came to Waco as an observer.

02 MAR 1993 Special Operations Commanders memo to Joint Chiefs and the FBI said they had carried out "observation of operations in Waco, Texas" - stamped "secret specat";

03 MAR 1993 "Mag Bag" searched

06 MAR 1993 Schneider says "...I really -- I'll tell you the truth. I -- it wouldn't surprise me that they wouldn't want to get rid of the evidence. Because if this building is left standing, you will see the evidences of what took place......"; in negotiations with the FBI Koresh says "Well, I'm saying y1all keep negotiating with us and stuff. But woe to the bloody city. ...."

08 MAR 1993 Three robots shipped to Waco w/2 civilian engineers, a Marine Corp major and an Army Captain; FBI faxed formal assault plan to White House at the request of Webb Hubbell; planned but aborted was a strategy to drug the BDs water supply;

Could it be that the top secret robots were chemical/biological detection devices? Biosensors, using fibre optic or electrochemical devices, have been developed for detecting micro-organisms in clinical, food technology, and military applications (King et al, 1999; Mulchandani et al, 1999). An immunosensor is used for the detection of Candida albicans (Muramatsu et al, 1986). Bacillus anthracis, and bacteria in culture are detected by optical sensors (Swenson, 1992). In addition, several systems have been developed in the USA to detect biological weapons. Generic and polyvalent immunosensors have been devised to detect biological agents that cause metabolic damage and whose antigenic structure has been specifically genetically altered to avoid detection by antibody-based detection systems. Other biodetection systems functioning as early warning/alert systems involve the detection of biological particle densities by laser eyes and electronic noses with incorporated alarms. Emphasis in such systems is less on the identity of the biological agent, and more on the early warning aspect which constitutes an effective arm in counteracting the threat of bioterrorism in daily and routine peace time environments (Schutz et al, 1999).

The hand-held Improved Chemical Agent Monitor (ICAM, also known as CAM2TM) is based on ion mobility spectrometry (IMS). Air is drawn into the IMS unit and is ionized by a weakly radioactive source. Agent molecules in the vapor phase form low-mobility ionic clusters. These time of flight of the ionic clusters from a sample in a drift tube is measured relative to a reference cluster. A computer examines the pattern of the time(s) of flight in a sample, determines the level of chemical agent present, and indicates on a display or by an alarm the level of hazard…….. The Automatic Chemical Agent Alarm (ACADA) system is another detector based on the GID-3TM IMS. This system is a larger, man portable IMS system with a communications interface to support battlefield automation systems…….ACADA replaces the M8A1 Automatic Chemical Agent Alarm System, which was used during the 1991 Gulf War. The M8A1 is also portable chemical agent alarm based on IMS……"


The M21 Remote Sensing Chemical Agent Alarm (RSCAAL) is based on a passive infrared (IR) detector. The incoming IR signal is compared against known agent spectra; when a match is detected a display lights and an alarm sounds. The display also indicates in which of the seven fields of view (spread over a 60 degree arc) the agent was detected. This allows the operator to actually track a moving agent cloud. The M21 is capable of detecting nerve and blister agents in the vapor phase from a distance of up to 5,000 meters; however, it must have a direct line of sight to the agent cloud in order to function...... All of the point detection devices are very sensitive and thus give a very rapid response. Again, the drawback to this sensitivity is that these devices can give false positive readings. Therefore, separate systems are needed to verify the presence of agent and to identify the specific agent......"


11 MAR 1993 Wilcher learns that Koresh had extensive CIA background;

15 MAR 1993 (approx) Meeting of 20 special operations experts incl FBI/Delta to discuss Waco as a case study; Cullen (a senior case officer with the CIA's Special Forces Group) proposed using chemicals to render BDs unconscious - plan rejected as a risk to the weak;

21 MAR 1993 Spillage of 2,000 gallons of diesel fuel on south side of complex; 4 Delta Force "observers" deployed (not revealed for 6.5 years)

Suddenly, after the 4 Delta observers were there on March 21st and 2,000 gallons of diesel spilled (the Davidians had a diesel generator,) the next day the FBI started pushing hard to gas the compound. From here on there appears to be a strong effort to contain the BDs in the compound with flash bangs, bright lights, concertina wire.

The containment is very obvious on 4/19/93 where there was a crushing of exits and an alleged firing at or blinding of people trying to escape.

The intent to contain is very significantly demonstrated on the day before - 4/18/93 – when a Delta Force operative is within 6 feet of Koresh and asks whether to nab him but command says not to do so, because they have a plan.

Taken altogether, it appears to me they were trying to control a potential contamination or leakage – or in the alternative, they had to make sure all people with knowledge and will to build another WMD would be eliminated along with the weapon components. Perhaps it was both….

Freeper amom 5/18/00 "… "…… Retired ATF Arson Specialist Rick Sherrow offers his expertise: "Survivors who exited the south side of the building had to walk through an area contaminated by fuel of a large tank spilled by the government tank operation. ……..


22 MAR 1993 FBI began pushing to use tear gas in writing;

30 MAR 1993 Special Operations Command responds to FBI's request for assistance; report forwarded to Defense Secretary Aspin and the Joint Chiefs, led by Gen Colin Powell

07 APR 1993 FBI activated two "flash bangs" to keep a person from leaving the building

09 APR 1993 Schneider came out and was flash-banged; another male exits and is flash-banged; FBI says they would not even try to fight any blaze that broke out despite the cautions of Jahn;

10 APR 1993 HRT began installing concertina wire around compound

11 APR 1993 FBI flash-banged another person trying to leave

12 APR 1993 Sessions, Clarke and Potts briefed Reno (and Hubbell) on the tear gas option; individual arrested at a roadblock trying to get into the compound

13 APR 1993 HRT notes stated that the FBI's chief tactical commander and the Army officers were summoned to Washington to ``brief White House -- liaison Hubble (sic),'' adding ``Hubble want (sic) military expert's opinion of the operation.''

14 APR 1993 Second briefing of Reno included Dr Harry Salem chief scientist for life sciences at the U.S. Army Chemical Biological Defense Command, Col Boykin of Delta Force and Gen. Schoomarker; Reno was persuaded that tear gas wouldn't harm individuals or ignite; DeGuerin told Jamar that Koresh would exit after writing a manuscript about the Seven Seals; 6.5 years later Cullen said they were told in a CIA briefing that more than 10 Delta would be actively participating in the attack; FBI began to gather information about the Davidian's water supply

The water tanks that so concerned Ghigliotti before his death - were ordered monitored by Reno on April 14th, found to be full on April 15th but drained on April 18th. The Davidian survivor said they were drinking rain water they had collected. But the compound had a well. It seems to me these events indicate that they were in the final phases of assembling their WMD. Note that a method of delivery for some WMDs requires a slurry and spraying.

Dave Hardy on his conversations with Ghigliotti "…Carlos also told me, last month, that he'd seen FLIRs from nights before 4/19, and that it was apparent that the FLIR aircraft was being used to monitor the Davidians' water supply. The water was stored in those big plastic tanks at the rear of the building, and the coolness of the water inside showed up as a darker area. It was apparent that the water supply was shrinking, and by 4/19 was almost gone. He had heard the aircraft crew talking about it, and noting that the level was going down. So, essentially, they knew that thirst would force an end to the siege within a few days of 4/19….."


15 APR 1993 FBI flash-banged a male trying to exit, he tried again and was flash-banged again; FBI reported that water storage tank in the rear appeared to be full; [redacted]

16 APR 1993 Hubbell reported that Reno's answer was no; Sessions, Clark and Potts asked to see Reno personally; Reno wanted documentation; Koresh confirms he will come out after writing the manuscript "I'm giving you the simple answer. Yes. Yes. Yes. I never intended to die in here."

I believe Koresh’s insistence on writing the Seven Seals was sincere. He wanted the world to know why the destruction occurred, to teach the world a lesson.

17 APR 1993 Reno received documentation and approved the tear gas plan; Louis Alaniz (first to sneak in) came out; FBI notified of Reno's decision that evening and began preparations

18 APR 1993 Reno briefed Clinton; Delta penetrated the building (they had on several occasions) and saw Koresh w/I 6 feet and radioed Tactical Operations Center for permission to grab him - w/I minutes the word came back from the Justice Department "No, we already have a plan in place."; Carlos Ghigliotti (FLIR expert now deceased) said the FLIRs from the nights before show the FBI was monitoring the water supply – and remarking that the water supply was shrinking

19 APR 1993 FBI attacks church with tanks, automatic weapons fire, gas. Inhabitants killed;

06:00 Tank inserts 6 canisters (1.5 gallons) of CS and over the next 6 hours FBI shot 400 Ferret rounds at 3.7 grams each.

07:30 Tank inserts 6 canisters of CS

09:00 Tank inserts 4 bottles of CS

11:45 Tank inserts 4 canisters of CS

10:47:16-10:52:57--Period of missing infrared video tape. Gordon Novel saw the missing 5.5 minutes of tape in New Orleans with Former CIA Colby; it shows them using blinding lasers and pushing a blade to drive the Davidians back into the compound.

Several stories were fabricated by the government but didn’t hold up to scrutiny. One was that the bunker collapsed killing the people inside. Autopsies attribute deaths this way, but the bunker was in fact not collapsed. Another was that Koresh tried to escape from the bunker 25 yards through the communications room to the kitchen to the exit. The floorplan does not agree. I have discarded these pieces of disinformation except to "red flag" that there must be something they don’t want us to notice...

Using Ol’ Dan Tucker’s lists, there were 19 with gunshot wounds, 13 were clearly to the head – an additional one is not clear - but only Schneider’s looked like the well taught Davidian method of suicide (gun in the mouth.) It just so happens the alleged after-action report attached to Wilcher’s document said "Inserted team terminated 12 by projectile to the base of skull or forehead, 10 minutes before incineration commenced." I don’t know when the autopsy reports were issued, but the alleged after-action report was dated on a fax as July 9 1993.

These numbers peaked my curiosity even more about the attachment and the kitchen, in particular whether the mission, timing and evidence line up to match the account given: The attachment describes the WMD device parts being located in the kitchen area (which we now know was just outside the only door into the bunker.)

At 09:28 the tank may have collapsed the stairway near the kitchen (boxing them in perhaps?) And we know from Jamar’s deposition that at 09:30 the listening devices had picked up conversations from a large group of women and children who had gathered in the kitchen, right next to the bunker. Then at 11:23 a tank is completely in the gym, at 11:54 the last voice is recorded from within the compound and the fires start at 12:07 (about 10 minutes apart, BTW!) The last FBI listening device went dead at 12:01

I could visualize some, mostly the women with their children in tow, frantically doing the final assembly of the WMD in the kitchen area, perhaps filling containers and/or spilling contents - while the siege was in progress. I believe anything within a certain square area of the WMD would have to be utterly consumed by fire to remove the contaminates.

From Ol’ Dan Tucker’s information (with the title lines changed to show proximity to the kitchen) we can see the gunshot victims’ bodies laying around in the aftermath as follows:

20 - Jimmy Riddle - gunshot wound, mid-forehead (Ol’ Dan Tucker said: "Common sense dictates that he was shot first, then run over by the tank. But the only known tank activity in the area where his body was recovered was the one that was supposed to have been gassing the pantry, so it's a reasonable assumption that his body was mutilated by this tank, which means that he was probably already dead when this tank broke through the walls and made a frontal assault on the pantry)
21 - Steven Henry - gunshot wounds
22 - Phillip Henry - multiple gunshot wounds, head and upper torso

Room next to the Kitchen
7 - Steve Schneider - gunshot wound, mouth
8 - David Koresh - gunshot wound, mid-forehead

Bunker room next to the Kitchen
31A - Aisha Summers - gunshot wound to the left chest
31D-E - parts of human skull, 11-14 yrs., gunshot wound to left skull
43 - Lisa Ferris - gunshot wound to the left head
44 - John Doe - gunshot wound to the left chest
45 - Mary Jean Borst - gunshot wound of the back
47 - Jane Doe - gunshot wound to the head
53 - Jane Doe 5-5.5 yrs. - gunshot wound to the left chest
66 - Jane Doe - gunshot wounds to the left back and thorax
67-B - infant - gunshot wound to the head

On top of the bunker room next to the Kitchen:
34 - Sonobe - gunshot wound of the head
35 - Shari Doyle - gunshot wound left posterior head
36 - David M. Jones - gunshot wound of the head
39 - Novellette Hipsman - gunshot wounds of the head and chest
41 - Neil Vaega - gunshot wound to the head

There appears to be a strange collection of head wound gunshot deaths in and around the kitchen, the numbers look just about right and there was a 10 minute interval.

The evidence makes it look like they blocked or herded the people into the kitchen/bunker area, or drug them in there if they were already dead, gassed them into immobility or coma and then killed the ones that weren't already dead (which would have been merciful at that point IMHO.)

After the gunshots, they would have set the WMD and contaminants (including the bodies) to be utterly destroyed perhaps as the alleged after-action attachment indicated "... Incineration occurred through the introduction of 80/90 MM 20 pound glycerine canisters which hold a flash point of 175F to accelerate the focused flash point. A C-2/4 tear gas (canister form) was inserted via 90MM Bradley barrels into the ripped structure to facilitate ignition. A combination of Oxygen and dimethyl alcohol was injected into the structure at intervals. Ignition occurred electronically; ignition for secondaries was delivered via mercury acid fuses located at canister base..."

As noted by Ol’ Dan Tucker, the blast downward into the concrete bunker that jelled the bodies together and crushed the walk in cooler, was slightly offset from the support beam as if the intention was to collapse the room, but they missed. The DSL research thread on the Hole in the Bunker and Fireball contains a lot information on this… Another concern regarding airstrikes is the probability and effect of releasing CBW agents into the air as a result of bombing. There is a high degree of unpredictability in any such estimate. This has been exemplified by the difficulties that those investigating the so-called Persian Gulf War Syndrome have experienced in determining how many U.S. troops may have been exposed to some level of nerve agent after the U.S. destruction of an Iraqi munitions depot shortly after the Persian Gulf conflict. A variety of factors would affect whether contamination would be localized or widespread, temporary or long-term. These include: type of CBW agent, type of munition, target location, population density, wind, humidity, level of sunlight, and temperature. There are U.S. munitions in the experimental stages intended specifically to reduce collateral contamination by penetrating bunkers before detonating or by destroying CBW agents through incineration rather than explosion. It is not clear, however, whether these weapons will be deployed to the Persian Gulf while still under development.

Freeper Outspot’s pictures help us to visualize where the bodies (red flags) were found. Many of the red flags represent deaths due to gun shots to the head. The alleged after action report indicated 12 deaths by projectile to the head. The numbers are very close, 1 more actual head wound on the red flags, but it was a gunshot to the mouth. Another gunshot autopsy was not clear whether there were any wounds to the head.

Outspot’s pictures of the bunker area after the assault:

The kitchen was directly in front of the only door into the bunker. The alleged after action report placed WMD components in the kitchen.

The bunker is where so many women and children bodies were located, in various states of decomposition. There is a hole on the roof of the bunker and the condition of the walk-in cooler inside and other evidence points to a downward, outward explosion/incineration.

These additional pictures from Freeper Ol’ Dan Tucker and Carol Valentine's Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum show the red flags on top of the bunker, the cleanup inside the bunker, the hole in the bunker and the crushed walk-in cooler:

Click here for more information on Freeper research into the Hole in the Bunker and Fireball: 6/23/00 AP "……Several FBI agents, including Joseph Servel and Michael Sackett, have said a fire erupted in the kitchen less than 30 seconds after they saw a tank insert tear gas into the room. ……. "We were in the ... (tank) and I was observing the area of the kitchen or dining room," Rowan testified. "Some smoke was coming from in between the clapboards from what was designated as the kitchen area.'' ……."

ABCNEWS 7/11/00 Matt Slagle "……Unidentified Branch Davidians were heard asking "start the fire?" and "should we light the fire?" in recordings played today in the $675 million wrongful-death trial against the government………. "Let's keep that fire going," a male voice said on the final day of the siege as tanks rumbled in the background. …….. Federal agents were heard warning sect members of an impending tear-gassing operation and urged them to surrender the morning of April 19. On the same excerpt, a male voice was heard asking, "Should we light the package?"

Waco: The Rules of Engagement, text of video page 35.
Narrator: As the gassing continued, the women and children went to the safest place left inside Mt. Carmel the kitchen storage room . . . a first floor steel reinforced concrete room --- a former vault -at the bottom of the square wooden tower.
Bob Ricks, FBI Spokesman: We knew that that protection was in there we believe we finally were able to make entry into that compound and were able to insert gas inside that protective area.
Clive Doyle, Branch Davidian Survivor: They actually drove right through the middle of the building into the kitchen area basically at point blank range fired gas into the concrete, what they called the bunker, the concrete room where the women and children were.

20 APR 1993 Wilcher received initial information that Waco was a mass murder

03 MAY 1993 Wilcher received specific information on how the 20 APR 1993 information was carried out

05 MAY 1993 Wilcher's originally scheduled appointment with Reno

13 MAY 1993 A document was written as a synopsis of the 14 APR 1993 meeting with Reno, Col Boykin, Gen Schoomaker and others; the after the fact memo stressed the military only played a "supporting role" and that they understood the legal restrictions on their activities

21 MAY 1993 Wilcher gave a 100 page report to the Department of Justice. On the cover page he says "....The lives of key participants, other witnesses, and even myself are now in grave danger as a result of my passing this information to you..." This is the first outside report of Delta Force involvement at Waco - it was not confirmed until summer of 1999

11 JUN 1993 Wilcher disappeared

23 JUN 1993 From the Death Report 93-875. At 1000 hours Ms Sara McClendon called the missing persons section of the DC Police complaining of a possible missing person. Lt. Quigley responded along with the DC fire department to Wilcher's home. Paul David Wilcher's badly decomposed body was found. The report says cause unknown, found inside bathroom, wearing striped shirt. Doctor Carol McMahon pronounced him dead at 1430.

Freeper razorback-bert "….. While trying to poke hole in your theory, I found this: May fit in somewhere is this weird world. ….A snippet from that site: Russbacher introduced Wilcher to members of his SEAL team. These men and others are the government employees who gave Paul Wilcher the information he put into the 100 page letter he wrote to Attorney General Janet Reno. In the letter he explained, as well as he could, various government mind control experiments. He felt he had to give Reno the background on mind control operations in the Waco area so she could fully understand what was really going on at the Branch Davidian compound.

Wilcher was told that something had gone wrong at Waco. The "sleepers" were waking up from their programming. Not only were they waking up, one or more of them had been accidently "triggered". The Waco "Sleepers" were programmed to make and deliver, a biological or chemical device that could kill everyone in a city the size of Oklahoma City or Houston. Information received by their "handlers" stated that the program had been accidently triggered and the 7 "Sleepers" had started building the device.

According to information from a government "plant" inside the compound, the device was only days from completion. A CIA/Delta Force team was fielded to go into the compound and "neutralize" the problems. When the BATF learned that a CIA/Delta Force Group was going into the Branch Davidian compound, the BATF decided to raid the compound first. The BATF had no idea why the CIA/DFG team was going in. The BATF had been carrying on an independent surveillance of the compound.

It would not have been unheard of for the BATF to have discovered the mind control project that was going on at the Davidian Compound. Mind control operations are common near the Waco area. Waco was the first major center for CIA mind control schools. No one has ever known if the BATF knew that Koresh and a few others were mind control subjects, or if they had just been tracking David Koresh because he dealt in guns. The Source who provided this information to RMNews said he had not been able to access the BATF records to discover why the Davidians were under BATF surveillance. Our source commented, "they (the BATF) had no idea what they were walking into."

According to our Source, by the time the FBI got involved, Janet Reno had already been briefed about the device. Her orders to the FBI were to contain and destroy the device. On the day of the Waco inferno, a Delta Group Force was inserted into the compound. Their orders were to kill the seven "sleepers" and disarm the device. The "sleepers" were killed, but the DFG group never had the time to find the device and disarm it.

The compound exploded in flames. The DFG team barely made it out alive. It was their belief that the FBI, the Department of Justice and the Clinton Administration intended to kill them also. This is why they gave their story to Paul Wilcher. In an operation like this, each person is "compartmented" and only told their part of the mission. The DFG team had no idea that Janet Reno knew about the existence of the device. It is not known if she knew about the mind control project or just thought the Davidians were a terrorist group with a device that could wipe out hundreds of thousands of Americans. ….."

Freeper Ada Coddington 5/18/00 response "…… One problem with the Wilcher theory is that as far as we know mind control has not yet been perfected to the state he describes. About the only thing supporting that is that strange statement Koresh supposedly made to Rodriguez (at the time I thought it was an ATF lie), "they got me once and they are not going to get me again". True, Koresh had been in custody once, but he suffered nothing from it and walked out a free man. Obviously he was not referring to the sheriff's office and as far as we know, no federal agency ever had him in custody. ……"

30 JUN 1993 RICO civil filing was scheduled with Judge Parsons in Chicago, but the judge also died similar to Wilcher and all the documents disappeared.

00 JUL 1993 Alexander Horvat interviewed Gunther Russbacher in prison. Gunther said that it was the Delta Group Special Forces that went into Waco.

01 JUL 1993 Gunther Russbacher smuggled the alleged memo out of prison via handwritten notes. He writes in all caps "RENO IS IN ON ALL OF IT" and in the left margin "Sessions has been notified."

09 JUL 1993 Attachment to the Wilcher report reads like an after action report and describes a WMD at Waco and claims 12 shot before the fire was set. It is titled "Discussions with William Sessions" and "Do not publish names. Quid pro quo" The quid pro quo is for safety of the ones who wish to come forward about Waco. Excerpts follow…

Purpose of the Waco raid was to target and remove seven sleepers (MK-Ultra) who refused to adhere to ASA and DIA standards…..

Waco compound members had almost completed assembly of a nerve gas toxin devise massive/large enough in quantity to target and destroy all organic life in 432 square mile area. A city the size of Oklahoma City was intended. However, Houston, Texas was designated as principal target……Method of dispersal was propeller craft with running air speeds of no more than 60 miles per hour. Max cross seeding to be done at 2500 feet for East-West axis, with 2000 feet for North-South axis.

The device in Waco was in very few hours of completion. Order to go in was not made by Executive Branch!!! Orders assumed "Code Actual" when the infiltrator agent residing within the complex stated "Code Blue" At that time our man (redacted) had pulled out. ATF had men in place (inside) up until two days before siege began.

Reno spoke with (redacted) about a D.G.F. insertion. Reno acted as if she knew nothing about the real problem – the device!


Material for the device was appropriated through A/F 1324-B. The nitrate component was acquired from Ft. Devens, MA; the volatility stabilizers were brought, via truck, from Ft Mead, MD. All raw and processed materials was provided from military stores. The gravity fuse detonators were acquired from Carewell USAF, Ft. Worth, TX.

Transport personnel was found from AAA services: a subsidiary of Snelling of St. Paul, MN. There were 2 ATF officers from Galveston in the compound as the shipments arrived.

Technical assistance in handling and construction were flown in to Dallas from Dover, Delaware. The techs were ASA and USA Chem Corps personnel (redacted.) CHEMICAL RAW WEIGHT – PRIOR TO (CHEMOPECTRA) SEPARATION - UNKNOWN

Molten metal fused to Kitchen appliances – 65kg of sulfur/zinc volatile mass. It did not ignite past prima stage!!! The cerebro neuro toxins of the C-2 nerve gas propellant ignited under a stress measure of .25pnd/PSI, causing neuro-toxins to incinerate at 0 level. Immediate reports were unavailable for 11 hours (according to media because it was too hot to enter) due to unresolved neuro-toxic density at 0 level (entire first squad wore toxic suits and double masks.) Total recovered mass at incineration site-124 pounds(+-) Numerous base mineral clusters were found fused to small ordnance. That means: the device was in 5 parts, kept in separate munitions bunkers (level 2&3.) The mineral/gaseous mass found at ground 0 were massed to various kitchen appliances and indicate that the compound of the mass was jellied! (color believed to have ranged from green to dark olive green- prior to incineration.) Incineration occurred through the introduction of 80/90 MM 20 pound glycerine canisters which hold a flash point of 175F to accelerate the focused flash point. A C-2/4 tear gas (canister form) was inserted via 90MM Bradley barrels into the ripped structure to facilitate ignition. A combination of Oxygen and dimethyl alcohol was injected into the structure at intervals. Ignition occurred electronically; ignition for secondaries was delivered via mercury acid fuses located at canister base.

DFG removed themselves from acute perimeter by doning ATF blue jackets and baseball caps. DFG blended with ingoing ATF as they meandered back and forth to their command vehicle. The amount of lives saved at ground 0=7.

Inserted team terminated 12 by projectile to the base of skull or forehead, 10 minutes before incineration commenced.

End of report.



19 JUL 1993 William Sessions FBI Director was abruptly fired.

20 JUL 1993: Deputy White House Counsel Vince Foster found shot to death; ruled suicide but thought to be murder.

XX OCT 1993 A review of the FBI's tear-gas assault exonerates the FBI and Justice Department. Later, Harvard professor Alan Stone files a dissenting report blaming the FBI.

XX FEB 1994 Jury convicts five Branch Davidians of voluntary manslaughter and two of weapons charges.

XX APR 1995 Several civil lawsuits filed by family members of Branch Davidians and survivors are consolidated and transferred to U.S. District Judge Walter Smith, who presided over the criminal trial.

XX JUL 1995 Two congressional subcommittees hold joint hearings over 10 days in an attempt to provide "a full accounting" of what happened at the compound.

XX AUG 1996 A federal appeals court upholds the convictions of six Davidians, saying federal agents did not use excessive force in trying to arrest Koresh.

XX JUL 1999 Smith pares the number of defendants and plaintiffs in the wrongful death lawsuit, but rules that the case can reach trial.

24 APR 2000 Judge announces that court expert's preliminary study of infrared videotapes made during the final hours of the siege found no firearm muzzle flashes from either federal agents or cult members.

10 MAY 2000 Court experts release final report on the simulation of aspects of the siege, which finds that flashes seen on a videotape were sunlight reflecting off debris, not government gunfire.

12 JUN 2000 Smith decides the question of whether government agents fired on Branch Davidians during the final hours of the siege will not be considered by the advisory jury. Instead, Smith rules he'll take up the issue later when a court-appointed expert - who was ill and could not attend the trial - is available to provide testimony.

19 JUN 2000 The $675 million wrongful death lawsuit against the government begins.

14 JUL 2000 An advisory jury decides the government bears no responsibility for the deaths of the Davidians. Smith takes the jury's decision under advisement, saying he will issue his final ruling when he takes up the gunfire issue.

21 JUL 2000 An outside investigator assigned to probe the 1993 siege and fire at the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas, Friday completely absolved the government of wrongdoing in the disaster. Former Sen. John Danforth said in a report that David Koresh, leader of the group, and several others were entirely responsible.

PBS Newshour 7/21/00 "……JIM LEHRER: Who did the shooting, Senator? Who shot whom and why?
The only people within the complex were the Davidians themselves. And I can't tell you whether they shot people. I can just tell you the results.
JIM LEHRER: But do you believe... is there any evidence to indicate that these 20 people were singled out because they didn't want to go along with the suicide? They wanted to escape? Is there any evidence on that issue at all?
SEN. JOHN DANFORTH: I don't think so. I think one of the people was shot in the back, which might indicate that, but most of them were shot in the head.
JIM LEHRER: Why were the children shot? Do you have any idea?
SEN. JOHN DANFORTH: I can't judge this at all. You know, as I say, we were really looking into whether or not the government was culpable and trying to figure out what happened. And it's absolutely clear that government agents did not fire shots that day.
JIM LEHRER: They fired no shots at all?
SEN. JOHN DANFORTH: No shots at all.
JIM LEHRER: And the evidence about that, you say is 100 percent certain, is that correct? ……
SEN. JOHN DANFORTH: It's 100 percent certain. And, in fact, the evidence presented on the other side was so weak that it had to do with so-called flare tests, which showed flashes. We hired two sets of experts to examine that issue. In both cases they concluded with, again, total certainty, that the reflections were... the flashes were glints of reflected sunlight and that they were not any kind of shots by guns.
JIM LEHRER: These were flashes that turned up on videotape.

Salon (via Drudge Report) 7/25/00 Daryl Lindsey "……..[Gifford WANR] How do you think Danforth reached his conclusions? It would have to be political. There's national security -- a lot of the documents that the government was refusing to turn over, that people were dragging their feet about are claimed to be national security documents. You have to ask yourself what could possibly be national security about Waco. It turns out that classified communication and electronic weapons were being tested on the Davidians. My impression from the questions is that he really didn't have the kind of access or clout to do it. He's going to have to question: Why are aspects of what happened at Waco considered national security? What was going on there? What were these classified weapons? There's a lot of things I don't know if he could get into. I don't know what kind of security clearance he had. I'm taking the position that this was a good faith investigation on his part, but it looks to me as if he's been hornswoggled, and it doesn't surprise me at all…….."



After the raid, all evidence of military involvement was suppressed. The official reports omitted to mention the hole in the roof of the bunker and the ATF dealings with the military prior to the failed raid. Evidence was falsely classified, altered or disappeared, bodies liquefied and much more.

There is way too much detail to include it all on this thread, but you can easily source these statements in the Downside Legacy and especially the Waco Timeline!

Except for the diligence of filmmaker McNulty and attorney Hardy, we would know very little. In reaction to their persistence, the players in this sad story didn’t stay in their appointed "compartments:"

Vague "confessions" of military involvement – especially Delta Force on 4/19/93 - are afloat; these guys are much too competent with top secret national security - to allow such information to get out unintentionally. IMHO, they must be very angry.

The Texas Rangers drew the line when they saw evidence they were being used and forced the issue last summer causing Judge Smith to make his unprecedented order forcing the government to fork over all of its evidence. The Department of Justice didn't cave in until Judge Smith ordered US Marshals to seize the evidence.

The U.S. prosecutor on the Waco criminal trial, Johnston, also discovered last summer that he was being used, released his documentary evidence and resigned.

Judge Smith must now know that he was also used as evidenced by his decisions and actions since last summer. Further, M.E. Peerwani wants to take another look at whatever remains of the remains and Senator Danforth has forensics working.


I now theorize that Judge Smith may have assured the long sentences for the Davidians in the interest of National Security and might therefore control the trial (non-jury) to protect the information. If so, I would expect him to also be very kind toward the plaintiffs. [On 27 MAY 2000 Judge Smith ordered a jury trial for the Davidian civil case and dropped counterclaims against the estates of Branch Davidian leaders as well as some surviving adult sect members who recently dropped their lawsuits against the government]



Int'l Herald Tribune 7/29/00 Stephen Rosenfeld "……The Korean War was raging in the Cold War '50s, and the North Korean aggressors and their Chinese patrons were accusing the United States, which had come to the defense of South Korea, of conducting biological war. These allegations created an international furor and could not be put away by repeated official American denials. Many people vaguely nurse them to this day. As recently as two years ago, Indiana University Press published a reiteration of the charges. In ''The United States and Biological Warfare: Secrets from the Early Cold War and Korea,'' Stephen Endicott and Edward Hagerman claim that new Western and Chinese documents have ''lifted the veil of secrecy to provide new evidence that the United States had an operational biological weapons system, and that it was employed in the Korean War.'' ……"

Freeper archy on Anthrax and other WMDs

"…If a potential WND was to have been used by Koresh, and assuming the likelihood that it wasn't a nuclear device, probably beyond the technological capability of the Davidians to prepare as a improvised/homebrew unit, and unlikely to have been provided to them by any foreign entity sponsoring them, and assuming it wasn't chemical, since they lacked any particular means for aerosol delivery over a large geographical area for maximum effect via aircraft, that leaves a biological possibility.

There are many possible avenues of attack for the American Southwest via a biowar device, but the one which seems to be receiving the most attention at present seems to be Anthrax, resultant from inhalation of the spores of Bacillus Anthracis.

There are indeed connections to Great Britain in this respect: in 1941-42 Great Britain tested the use of feed *cakes* for cattle contaminated with Anthrax on cattle grazing at Gruinard Island off the coast of Scotland. Despite repeated efforts to sterilize the aftereffects of that wartime operational necessity, the place remains a contamination zone and fears that birds cound spread the spores to the mainland remain a pressing concern.

Texas, with its well-known cattle industry would seem to be particularly vulnerable to an attack with similar material, which would require little more for preparation than a supply of infected source material, a few hundred pounds of dog food, enough water to combine the two into a slurry, and a few days to dry enough for packaging- inside waxed paper bags would be near ideal.

Anthrax as a Weapon of Terrorism and Difficulties Presented in Response to its Use
Defense Journal

In the wake of the Persian Gulf War, Oklahoma City bombing and use of sarin by Aum Shinrikyo in Tokyo, the potential use of nuclear, biological and chemical (NBC) weapons by terrorists within the United States has come to the attention of the print and electronic media. As recently as June 14, 1998, 60 Minutes ran a story concerning the use of anthrax as a weapon in major cities such as New York and Boston. Earlier this year, Secretary William Cohen appeared on the This Week programme using a 5 lb. bag of sugar to demonstrate the amount of anthrax bacillus necessary to devastate a major metropolitan city. …..

….World War I saw the possible introduction of anthrax as a weapon against livestock and transportation animals. A clandestine biological research laboratory was set up in Baltimore, MD by the German government in 1915. A number of suspected uses of anthrax by the German government during World War I were alleged, but not well documented. Japan, Great Britain, and the United States all proceeded with research into the use of anthrax bacillus as a weapon in World War II. While no combatants used anthrax during this war, the Anthrax bacillus was both tested on animals and allied prisoners. Weapon delivery systems were also developed. The former Soviet Union also developed a biological research programme during the Cold War. The accidental release of anthrax from a secret bio-weapons research facility in Sverdlovsk, USSR resulted in the death of 66 of 77 diagnosed cases.

….In 1993, the Aum Shrinkyo cult attempted to release anthrax spores in downtown Tokyo one month prior to the nerve gas attack. This incident marks the first instance of anthrax to be used as a weapon against a civilian population.

…. Pulmonary anthrax starts with inhalation of anthrax spores. The US Army estimates that inhalation of 8,000-50,000 spores can cause infection. After an incubation period of one to seven days, an exposed individual develops flu-like symptoms {malaise, fatigue, myalgia (body ache), fever and non-productive cough} that persist for two to three days. ……. Within twenty-four to thirty-six hours, the victim experiences the rapid onset of shock and subsequent death. Inhalation anthrax has a mortality of 95-100% despite antibiotic treatment.

Ingestion anthrax has an incubation period of 2-5 days. Symptoms include nausea, vomiting fever and severe abdominal pain. Ingestion anthrax has a mortality of 95-100% despite antibiotic treatment.

…… Anthrax exists in soil as a spore. Under certain condition, the anthrax spore can remain viable in soil for decades. After conducting open-air anthrax weapons research on Gruinard Island in Scotland in 1941, the British government banned human entry for over fifty years.

Anthrax occurs worldwide, reported in 82 countries. Human cases of anthrax are reported regularly in countries in the Middle East, Africa and the former Soviet Union. Cases of animal anthrax in the United States occur in Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Oklahoma and South Dakota. Cattle, sheep, goats and horses are the chief animal hosts. Infections can occur from contact with contaminated carcasses, hides, wool, hair, blood, excreta, bones; and consuming uncooked, contaminate meat. …..

Since anthrax is persistent in the environment, contamination of soil would require special treatment. Gruinard Island, the location of the British anthrax experiments remained restricted to human entry for over fifty years. Similar decontamination procedures would be necessary for open soil and park space contaminated with anthrax spore.

Buildings with operating fresh air intakes of the heating, ventilation and air-conditioning (HVAC) system must be assumed to be contaminated if within the estimated plume of an anthrax spore release. All ductwork, interior rooms, air filters and related HVAC system machinery would have to be disinfected or disposed of to prevent the spread of spores.

More from source:
*The Threat of Deliberate Disease in the 21st Century*

"…A would-be proliferator first needs to determine which micro-organisms would be suitable for a biological warfare program. Generically speaking, the following groups or classes of micro-organisms can cause disease:

Bacteria are single-cell organisms that cause such diseases as anthrax, plague, and tularemia. Bacteria vary greatly in their level of lethality and infectivity. Although many pathogenic bacteria are susceptible to antibiotic drugs, strains can be selected that are resistant to antibiotic and occur naturally. Bacteria can be readily grown in artificial media using facilities similar to those found in the brewery industry.

Viruses are 100 times smaller than bacteria and occur in large numbers in nature. Viruses can infect animals, crops, and humans. Among the disease-producing viruses are smallpox, Ebola, and Venezuelan equine encephalitis. Viruses must be grown on living tissue. They can mutate naturally or be genetically engineered to increase their effectiveness.

Rickettsiae are similar to bacteria in structure and form, but must be grown in living tissue. Diseases caused by rickettsiae include Q-fever, typhus, and Rocky Mountain spotted fever.

Fungi occur in great variety in nature. Relatively few species appear to have potential for deliberate use against humans, although many more could be used to destroy crops. Among the fungal pathogens that can cause hardship and famine are potato blight and cereal rust.

Toxins are the non-living products of micro-organisms (e.g., botulinum toxin and Staphylococcal enterotoxin B), of plants (e.g., ricin, from castor beans), or of living creatures (e.g., saxitoxin, from shellfish). Toxins can also be produced by chemical synthesis. Toxins, like chemical warfare agents, can only affect those exposed to the toxin and cannot produce transmissible diseases. Because they are non-living organisms, producing a large quantity of toxins requires more time than would be needed to make a similar quantity of other biological agents…..

A significant amount of work has already been conducted to determine what specific micro-organisms within the above-named generic categories would be useful for military purposes. In 1942 to 1943, the British conducted trials on Gruinard Island off the northwest coast of Scotland to investigate the feasibility of biological warfare.15 Great Britain developed a retaliatory capability to kill German cattle by delivering linseed meal cakes laced with anthrax through the flare chutes of aircraft. Approximately 5 million anthrax-spiked cattle cakes—about three centimeters in diameter and a couple of centimeters thick—were stockpiled….."

From the Downside Legacy:

WorldNetDaily 7/26/99 "...The government has announced that it "requires a new smallpox vaccine to deal with the consequences if smallpox were used as a terrorist weapon against the civilian population." That announcement, via the Commerce Daily Bulletin, was the first time the government has asked for smallpox vaccine to be manufactured in over 26 years. The virus is supposed to have been officially eradicated from the face of the earth in 1972, but few believe that it was. There have long been reports that some countries and terrorist organizations have secret smallpox samples and have been developing the virus as a bio-weapon. ... According to the articles' writer, Richard Preston (author of the best-selling "The Hot Zone," about the deadly African Ebola virus) the U.S. government has a classified list of over 11 nations or groups suspected of either already having a secret stockpile of smallpox, or of trying to steal, or buy one. This list includes Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Israel, North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Cuba and Serbia. Also suspected are the terrorist organization of Osama bin Laden and the Aum Shinrikyo sect of Japan which released nerve gas in a Tokyo subway in 1995. ... " "…. Sarin is extremely toxic, the lethal dose for humans may be as low as 0.01mg/kg. Sarin acts as a cholinesterase inhibitor which prevents nerve synapses from operating properly. Symptoms of sarin poisoning include difficulty in breathing, drooling, excessive sweating, nausea, vomiting, cramps, involuntary defecation and urination, twitching, jerking, staggering, headache, confusion, drowsiness, coma, convulsion and dimness of vision……In order to counteract the affects of sarin, immediate decontamination of the smallest drop is essential. …….Addition of alkaline solution accelerates decomposition. Also effective is a rise in temperature and addition of a catalyst (e.g. hypochlorite from bleaching powder). An area exposed to Sarin will decontaminate itself within a few days….." Agency Structures for Terrorism Response New York Times 5/26/98 Sheryl WuDunn, Judith Miller, and William J. Broad "…..In repeated germ attacks in the early 1990s, an obscure Japanese cult tried to kill millions of people throughout Tokyo, and, a cultist has now testified, at nearby U.S. bases where thousands of service people and their families live. The biological strikes were not detected at the time, and their significance has only recently become clear to Japanese officials still investigating the cult's activities…….. As far as is known, there were no deaths. But a New York Times examination of court testimony and confessions of the cult's members, as well as interviews with Japanese and U.S. officials, show that its germ attacks were far more numerous than previously known. Hoping to ignite an apocalyptic war, the group sprayed pestilential microbes and germ toxins from rooftops and convoys of trucks. Its members have testified that the targets included the Japanese Legislature, the Imperial Palace, the surrounding city and the U.S. base at Yokosuka, which is headquarters of the Navy's 7th Fleet. That little-noticed testimony marks the first time a germ terrorist has ever told of assaulting any part of the U.S. government……" "….. "There's no consistency," Milton Leitenberg, a biologist at the University of Maryland who studies germ terrorism, said in an interview. "Even for pros, some batches kill, others don't." ….. Hundreds of different strains of botulinum are found in nature, and the potency of their toxins varies widely, experts say. Type A toxin is the strongest. Even strains that make the same toxin do so in differing amounts. The U.S. germ program, decades ago, seized on the so-called Hall strain because it made huge quantities of the A toxin. Experts say the exceptionally deadly strain is almost impossible to find…….To get anthrax, Japanese authorities revealed, Endo turned to a cult member who had a medical license and could obtain the germs without raising questions. They now suspect the microbes came from Tsukuba University, which is part of a major science complex northeast of Tokyo. …..In interviews, Japanese authorities revealed that the main impediment was deficiencies in the anthrax itself, saying Endo reported that it turned out to be a vaccine strain -- in other words, relatively harmless. Both U.S. and Japanese experts said that the anthrax, whatever its exact form, was clearly not Vollum 1B -- one of the deadliest of dozens of anthrax strains and the one often preferred for biological warfare…….In the aftermath of the arrests, Japanese and U.S. officials found wide evidence that the cult had been trying to expand its germ arsenal. Traveling to Zaire, ostensibly to lend medical aid, cult members had even apparently tried to obtain the highly contagious Ebola virus, which causes profuse bleeding and high fevers that are usually fatal. …….Senate investigators obtained a 41-minute video of one building's interior. It was a maze of lab gear, glassware and guru photos. A high-tech incubator for growing germs was the size of a towering refrigerator. ……" "…… William C. Patrick III, an expert who made U.S. biological weapons before President Nixon outlawed them nearly three decades ago, said restricting germ commerce was essential for world safety. A particular species of harmful microbe might come in dozens or even hundreds of subvarieties, Patrick said. Only one such strain might pose exceptional dangers of sickness and death…….For would-be terrorists, he added, "getting the most infectious and virulent culture for the seed stock is the greatest hurdle."….." "….. Today there are more than 1,500 microbe banks around the world, and they work hard to maintain the purity and accessibility of a million or so strains of disparate microorganisms, many deadly. The microbes are usually shipped in vials smaller than a finger. Hospitals order human pathogens to check the accuracy of diagnostic procedures, and companies use them to aid work on new medical treatments. Many nations have microbe banks. Typically they are at universities, government labs and private companies. The World Federation for Culture Collections, the largest such group, has some 400 members in 50 countries, including Bulgaria, Iran and Pakistan. Fifty-five federation members ship differing strains of anthrax, some for a fee, some free. …. Fearing that Iran and Iraq would use germ weapons in their war, U.S. policy makers cut off pathogen exports to the combatants. The Commerce Department acted on Feb. 23, 1989. A ban was declared on the shipment of dozens of pernicious microbes not only to Iran and Iraq but also to Libya and Syria, which were also suspected of trying to acquire germ weapons. "We knew we were sitting on a time bomb," said a federal official who helped set the policy……Raising the issue internationally, the United States asked its allies to impose analogous restrictions. But little happened until the 1991 Persian Gulf War, when coalition members came to fear that Baghdad was preparing attacks with germs that Washington had put into Iraqi hands years earlier……." Interview with Larry Wayne Harris
by David E. Kaplan Senior Editor, U.S. News & World Report 9/2/97 "…..USN: So you think we’ll see terrorist use of biochemical agents in the U.S.?
LWH: Heavens yes! It’s already happened. We’ve been experimented on by people in the U.S. for years. The government did it... There are super-rats. About 1989, the government took rats -- 100 from each big city -- and injected them with bubonic plague, to see how well it would start a plague. None of them would last long enough to become infectious. But the plan backfired.
USN: How hard is it to create biological weapons?
LWH: Not hard at all. I recovered anthrax, it took just ten days. I checked the newspapers and found the last outbreak in Ohio, it was in the 1950s. I found where the cows were buried and used a long prod to get a sample... It’s very deadly stuff. A single container of anthrax could cause within 48 hours 100,000 people dead. I also cultured yersinia intercolitica -- it’s like plague. You can do it table top. The only thing you need is a good microscope, an autoclave, an incubator... Let’s whip up some botulism -- that’s simple.
USN: Do you think others are doing similar things?
LWH: Of course they’re going to. That goes without saying... Biologicals are extremely easy and far more deadly than an atomic bomb. And microbiologists are the one group that posssess the largest number of their own personal private labs in their own homes than any other discipline out there.
USN: There’s a lot of material available on the Net on biochemical agents -- formulas, where to order recipe books, and so forth. How do you feel about that?
LWH: You haven’t seen anything yet. Wait ‘till you see what’s getting ready to go on the Net. The people I’m talking to... they’re going to post step-by-step instructions how to obtain anthrax, how to disperse it...
USN: Doesn’t that worry you?
LWH: Not at all. It’s deterence. If you know that everyone in the neighborhood has an atomic bomb, civility returns to the neighborhood very quickly.
USN: So, do you think your associates might use these weapons against the government?
LWH: If they arrest a bunch of our guys, they get a test tube in the mail... How many cities are you willing to lose before you back off? At what point do you say: ‘If these guys want to go off to the Northwest and have five stated declared to be their own free and independent country, let them do it?" …." 2/20/1998 Jeff Stein "…. Larry Wayne Harris, arrested Wednesday in Las Vegas with a car full of suspected biological weapons, told an interviewer recently he'd been experimenting with a half dozen other toxins, including bubonic plague, and had made anthrax from a pit in the woods near Cleveland where previously infected cows had been buried 40 years ago. "You know how long it took me to isolate anthrax from the earth?" Harris said, according to a transcript given to Salon by a U.S. government intelligence agency. "Ten days. It took me 14 days to recover bubonic plague." Asked what else he'd been experimenting with, Harris said, "Brucellosis. Tularemia. Cholera. I mostly work with yersinia (bubonic plague virus). It's easy to isolate from cow droppings." …….Military and FBI officials are testing the suspected toxin at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada. …… Harris was on parole after a 1995 conviction for fraudulently trying to obtain botulism samples from a biotechnology firm in suburban Washington, D.C. He claimed that his actions were designed to warn Americans about the perils of biological warfare materials and how easy it is to obtain them. ……. "I hooked it up to a vacuum pump. I incubated it at 35 degrees overnight," he said, adding that, "you can spread this stuff with a commercial paint sprayer (and) use ... mounts outside older aircraft" to spray it over a city. "Within 48 hours, over 100,000 would be dead. If you have one-tenth of a millionth of a gram, that's enough to kill a person." ……… "My book is strictly about civil defense," he said. "I've talked with the casualty management team at the Pentagon. They tell me that it would take one year to recover from the loss of a million people."

7/14/00 Wilmington Morning Star Amy Turnbull "….The state rested its case Thursday in the second-degree murder trial of retired Army Col. George Marecek, and New Hanover County Sheriff's deputies were stationed outside the courthouse door to monitor the potentially volatile proceeding. ……. Security was tightened Wednesday after Dennis Rood reported to Carolina Beach Police that he had been harassed by two men at his home the night before he was to testify against Mr. Marecek. He identified one of the men as Jonathan Keith Idema, an outspoken supporter of Mr. Marecek. ……. Carolina Beach Police Maj. William Still said Thursday that witness tampering charges will not be filed against Mr. Idema. "I discussed it with (District Attorney) John Carriker this morning, and it does not meet elements of the statute," Maj. Still said. "This was a heated argument, but does not meet criteria of a threat." The incident report will remain on file, he added, but Mr. Idema will not be charged. ………. The report came as no surprise to Mr. Idema, a former Green Beret like Mr. Marecek who Thursday was visiting the Committee to Free Marecek headquarters on Princess Street. He said the report was made as an attempt by law enforcement to quiet him just as he was about to make public damaging information about the New Hanover County Sheriff's Department's investigation of the case. Mr. Idema said he only approached Mr. Rood to confront him about information he has that contradicts statements Mr. Rood has made in court. Mr. Idema said he asked Mr. Rood why he lied under oath. "If that question is intimidation, then every journalist in this country is guilty of intimidation," he said. …….Mr. Idema has been working on the Marecek case for about a year, he added, and he is convinced that Mr. Marecek is not guilty of murdering his wife, Viparet, at Fort Fisher in 1991. …….He said he isn't working for the defense team. He said, in fact, that he has been ordered not to turn over the information he gathers to the defense. He said he works for the Counter-Terrorist Group, an organization whose primary focus, according to its Web site, is an academy that "provides its graduates with the most modern tactics and techniques for armed encounters and for the successful prevention and resolution of acts of terrorism." …….."

WorldNetdaily 8/28/99 Betsy Gibson "...A former Special Forces commando says he spoke yesterday to a Delta Force commando who was present at the final tear-gas assault on the Branch Davidian compound. Keith Idema, who was a member of Special Forces and Special Operations units from 1975 to 1992 and helped to train hostage rescue team personnel for both Delta Force and the FBI, says pictures from Waco released this week by the Texas Department of Public Safety have been mistakenly identified by the department as gun silencers and suppressors belonging to David Koresh and his followers which were found inside the compound after the fire. Idema says they are actually concussion grenades manufactured by a company, Defense Technology, and purchased by the FBI. Idema also says the bright light seen on video footage as flashing inside the building moments before the fire broke out have been misidentified as a fire started by Branch Davidian leader David Koresh, when, in fact, to the trained eye of a Special Forces explosive expert it is unmistakably the flash caused by a "concussion grenade" that has been lobbed inside the compound...."

Annals of Warfare 3/9/98 Richard Preston "……. KEN ALIBEK is a quiet man, forty-seven years old, with youthful looks and an attractive, open face. He lives in a rented condominium in Arlington, Virginia, a five-minute walk from his office at a private consulting firm. Alibek has dark hair and Asian features, and a dimpled scar on his nose, which he got in an accident that was "not heroic," he says, involving a machine in a biowarfare plant. …….. Before he arrived in the United States, in 1992, Ken Alibek was Dr. Kanatjan Alibekov, the first deputy chief of research and production for the Soviet biological-weapons program. He was the top scientist in the program, a sprawling, clandestine enterprise known as Biopreparat, or The System, by the scientists who worked in it. Biopreparat research-and-production facilities were flung all across the Soviet Union. As Dr. Alibekov, Ken Alibek had thirty-two thousand scientists and staff people working under him. …….Alibek has a Doctor of Sciences degree in anthrax. It is a kind of superdegree, which he received in 1988, at the age of thirty-seven, for directing the research team that developed the Soviet Union's most powerful weapons-grade anthrax. He did this research as head of the Stepnagorsk bioweapons facility, in what is now Kazakhstan, which was once the largest biowarfare production facility in the world. The Alibekov anthrax became fully operational in 1989. It is an amber-gray powder, finer than bath talc, with smooth, creamy particles that tend to fly apart and vanish in the air, becoming invisible and drifting for miles. The Alibekov anthrax is four times more efficient than the standard product. ……Ken Alibek is part of a diaspora of biologists who came out of Russia following the breakup of the Soviet Union. Government funding for research decreased dramatically, and scientists who were working in the biowarfare program found themselves without jobs……."

Annals of Warfare 3/9/98 Richard Preston "…….BIOPREPARAT, or The System, was set up in 1973, just a year after the Soviet Union signed the Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention, an agreement banning the development, use, and stockpiling of biological weapons. The United States, which had ended its offensive-bioweapons program in 1969, also signed the treaty, as did Great Britain. (Some hundred and forty nations have signed the convention by now.) The Soviets continued to believe, however, that the United States had not ended its bioweapons program but simply hidden it away, turning it into a "black" weapons program. "The notion that the Americans had given up their biological weapons was thought of as the great American lie," a British intelligence officer recalls. "In fact, most of the Biopreparat scientists had never even heard of the Biological Weapons Convention." ……"

Annals of Warfare 3/9/98 Richard Preston "…….The yolk of the bioweapons program may now be hidden away in military facilities run by the Russian Ministry of Defense, which are off limits to Americans. The largest of these is a complex near Sergiyev Posad, an old town about thirty miles northeast of Moscow. It's not clear how much real control Boris Yeltsin has over the Russian military. If the Ministry of Defense wanted to have a bioweapons program, could anyone tell it to stop? One prominent American scientist said to me, "All of our efforts in touchy-feely relationships have certainly engaged the former Biopreparat people, but we've been turned down flat by the military people. No doubt they're hiding something at Sergiyev Posad, but what are they hiding? Is it a weapons program? Or is it a shadow that doesn't mean anything, like the shadow on the shade in 'Home Alone'? We just don't know." ……"

8/6/00 Peter Donhowe "…..In his preliminary report on the events surrounding Waco, Special Counsel John C. Danforth missed an opportunity to note an important reason for the public distrust of government -- the use of military advice and equipment against citizens…….. His report could have observed that when military advice and equipment are mobilized by civil authorities, public distrust can grow because citizens can be transformed into "enemies." But it didn't…….. Instead, his report detailed the military involvement at Waco, but strained to find it all "legal." When three Texas National Guard helicopters, flown by guard personnel, acted as a diversion during the fateful and deadly Feb. 28 raid by military-trained agents from the Treasury's Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms unit, the Danforth report said it did not violate the Posse Comitatus Act because the federal act does not apply to the state military aid……… Even though the helicopter flights were a direct military participation in a raid by a civilian agency -- a clear violation of the spirit if not the letter of the federal law -- and even though the flights were in direct contravention of National Guard advisories, the report found the action an "inadvertent violation."……"

8/6/00 Peter Donhowe "….. And when U.S. Army Special Forces generals advised Attorney General Janet Reno, the Danforth report said they did not "grade" the FBI's plan at Waco -- which would have been clearly illegal and something the military lawyers had explicitly warned against. Instead, the generals merely recounted how the military would do it, the report said. (One could almost see the report's lawyers wink at this one.) ……… When Reno testified about the generals before Congress (which the report never mentioned), she said, "Their comments were instructive."…….. There was a "drug nexus" at Waco, too. It was pretty flimsy, but, according to the Danforth report, the ATF request was enough to get the U.S. military to form a special team, to give the ATF military training, equipment and support for the Feb. 28 raid……. A precipitating event related to the Feb. 28 ATF raid was a surveillance flight that allegedly discovered a "hot spot" indicating a methamphetamine lab. No evidence of such a lab was found in the ashes of the complex. But not to worry. The Danforth report says "the vast majority of military support provided at Waco was not premised on any alleged drug nexus." That aid included two tanks, a transport aircraft, helicopters, ammunition, surveillance "robots," classified television jamming equipment, gas masks, night-vision goggles, concertina wire, tents, cots, generators and medical supplies -- not to mention 10 Bradley vehicles, five Combat Engineering Vehicles and other military supplies provided by the Texas Guard……..Peter Donhowe, Champaign, Ill., is editor of TV and Politics WATCH, a monthly newsletter……."




How to Test the WMD Theory:

To test my theory, you might wish to ask yourself what YOU would do if - rolling the calendar back to 1993:

you were in a position of very high authority

you knew that Koresh and 6 other Davidians had obtained all the plans and material to build a weapon of mass destruction that was large and lethal enough to kill all biological life in Houston - millions.

you knew that massive deaths could or would occur worldwide if the technology fell into the wrong hands, i.e. terrorists or rogue governments

you knew Koresh was rewriting end-of-the-world prophecy and had a method to use the weapon in an effort to teach the world a lesson.

you knew the weapon was developed by the US (perhaps along with England) to render the need for a worldwide nuclear arsenal obsolete.

you knew, after trying and failing to take it and them on 2/28/93, that getting rid of the weapon and eliminating all the documentation, components and contaminants - would require annihilating 80 people including innocent children in fiery mop-up

you knew government covert agents' lives would be greatly at risk if the operation were made known.

you knew how the public and economy would react to the knowledge of these facts

Would you then consider it a matter of national security that the public could not handle and try to keep a lid on all of it by making cover stories, hiding evidence, secluding survivors and stonewalling, harassing and perhaps even injuring investigators?

Then, rolling the calendar forward - assuming you did all the above, how would you go about getting this information out to the public without violent reactions?!

As a further test, you may wish to see if any of these anomalies would not make sense under the WMD scenario:

The special operations contact and training of the ATF before the raid 2/28/93
the going ahead on 2/28/93 after they were found out
the execution style deaths of the 4 ATF agents/bodyguards
the concentration on the second floor in the 2/28/93 raid
the absence of ambulances on 2/28/93
the deputizing of the Texas Rangers
the special handling of the media
the Davidians wouldn't give up
the Koresh on site preoccupation with end-of-the-world prophecies even though wounded and under siege, when he could have done it on the outside or in prison
the absence of firefighting equipment on 4/19/93
the people not leaving the building despite the tear gas
the various states of decomposition of the bodies
the annihilation of virtually all occupants
the tanks continuing to batter the walls after the fire started
the delaying of the Texas Rangers from the scene while a body and door were removed
the limiting of ME Peerwani to just the cause of death (e.g. gunshot) and not the manner of death (e.g. suicide, homicide, accident) ...
the missing door
the liquefication of the remains
the bulldozing of the grounds
the special treatment of a "spill"
the firing of Sessions
the death of Foster
the offering up and then kid glove treatment of ATF/FBI people involved
the sentences of some survivors, the status of other survivors
the missing reference to the hole in the bunker and the ATF/special operations contacts in the official reports
the missing and misclassified evidence of military involvement
the actions of the attorneys and investigators, formal and informal
the survivors have not mentioned hearing any gunshots
the fact that we haven’t heard of anyone on 4/19/93 helping the Davidians wounded by gunfire
the fact that Caddell was satisfied to depose only 3 Delta Force members when film shows there were at least five on the scene 4/19/93


Additional Information from Questions and Answers:


Someone mentioned that Mt. Carmel did not have inside plumbing but did have a lot of expensive radio and computer equipment which seemed to be an odd priority; however, it just might be that the ham radio and computer equipment was the private property of some of the members.

That’s very true! They also had a photo lab which was odd. And as I recall the BATF diagram showed something like 7 PCs and 2 Macs in their computer room, which is also odd.

Some came out during the days before the siege. Is there no information from them? Since they are alive and witness to much that happened, it seems logical their information is the source for many of our questions.

I find this very curious indeed. As the civil trial moved forward, one suddenly confessed to shooting at the ATF agents that died, another offered evidence that the BDs started the fire, 2 relatives withdrew from the suit even though it could be quite lucrative, some have tried to gain legal ownership of the grounds. IMHO, it sounds like a lot of pressure is being applied behind the scenes – and at least some of the survivors may not be what they seem (plants perhaps?)

How can those involved be kept from telling their story?

As I mentioned there are many symptoms of pressure being applied not to mention the deaths (natural or otherwise) of Wilcher, Ghigliotti, Sheriff Harwell, Vince Foster, William Colby, Eddie Pack, Rev Roger Howard, Manual Howard, James Ray Dobbins – and the near deaths of Allard, Zegel ….

What has happened to Gordon Novel?

He is an investigator for Ramsey Clark, a Davidian plaintiff’s attorney. He was imprisoned during part of this – a condition that seems to frequent a lot of people with information about Waco (and Mena and the CIA.)

There is much to consider and wonder about; and how does one filter the particles of truth from the sediments diffusing, clouding the issues? Too many influences, too many half truths too many dead people who knew their part of the story, too many criss-cross involvements and "maybe" paranoid conspiracy theories.

Exactly!!! That’s what we are trying so hard to do here. Freepers put all the information on the table, look for supporting details, sift out the disinformation and misinformation!

Worst case scenerio is most all the speculation in all the multitude of directions somehow connects and is part of a gigantic hostile "shadow group" planned purpose.

That was the foundation thinking in Wilcher's report to Reno.

I've seen no sign that Koresh had access to the technology for manufacturing a nuke, though slipping one across Mexico's border is at least a possibility. Chemical weaponry is less efficient, and he had a ready-made source of a bio agent ready for the asking, but no such attack has since taken place, so he apparantly had no *wild card* or *dead man's switch* prearranged to discharge such a weapon if he was elimninated, a pretty shortsighted tactical and strategic blunder for an alleged WMD mastermind.

Perhaps it was to be a suicide mission? He did not seem to be concerned about physical death. The Justice report said According to one individual who left the compound during the standoff, there was never any plan to surrender on March 2. Instead, a number of individuals were to come outside with Koresh, who would be on the stretcher. After exiting, they would blow themselves up with some type of explosive device. Afterwards, all the remaining people inside would either be killed or would kill themselves.

I would like to see more of (if it exists) is: evidence of a Howell-CIA connection beyond just "Wilcher said so", speculation about where and when Howell hooked up with the CIA (or insert other mind-controlling agency if you wish :) and got the training to build a WMD (when he was in Israel?), that sort of thing. Seems like without that, the rest falls apart, because Koresh had to have learned how to build this thing/stuff somehow....

This theory does not hinge on the mind control assertions of Wilcher. But Wilcher obviously was onto something. He was the first to identify the Delta Force involvement (6.5 years before the media.) Therefore, I cannot just dismiss what he says out-of-hand that easily. He said he was not speaking with first hand knowledge but was representing a group of people who wanted to come forward. He was trying to cut a deal for them with Reno, thinking that she was not part of the group involved. His report is written like a legal brief, meandering through court cases and history trying to lead Reno to the same conclusion and next step. Wilcher was an attorney.

Wilcher said that Koresh was CIA and there were 6 others with him. He said they were a "cell" and there were other cells in other states. I have seen nothing to support it nor would I expect to find anything substantive to support the identification of any covert intelligence operation. It wouldn’t be logical to me.

What I do see about Koresh that makes me raise an eyebrow is his extensive traveling and recruitment, especially out of the country. The first red flag is how on earth could a drifter, a musician and handyman afford to do that? Another is his managing to attract 40 people from other countries to the compound – and their overstaying their own visas. That is the kind of activity I would expect to see from someone with intelligence connections. Also, the technical knowledge may not have been with Koresh but with one of the others.

In all the tapes of the phone calls betwen Koresch and the outside world there isn't a single warning regarding possible use of a deterrent device.

I’m very sure we do not have access to all the material recorded concerning the siege. There are numerous redactions in the Department of Justice reports and we have seen a history of omissions and lost evidence.

However, even with the evidence that is publicly disclosed, we see in Koresh’s letters to the FBI a reference to "the beast" and in his conversations such terms as "Woe to the bloody city." Koresh was preaching to the FBI continually from end time prophecies – and the origin of his belief was that he was the chosen executioner of final judgments.

Being the executioner of final judgments in his vision of prophesy, his agenda would not include deterrence.

Perhaps the WMD wasn't finished because some crucial ingredient(s) was(were) missing." - Maybe, maybe not. The key question is how the government would know that for a certainty.

On top of the exhaustive listening devices, the government had undercover agents in the compound and the Delta Force operatives also inflitrated. They also had UC-26 flyovers and most especially, the top secret robots.

Questions about whether the ATF had ambulances or phones in the initial raid: Congressional Hearings: "......Dan Maloney, KWTX-TV, Waco: We were sittin' there and ATF agent said "Newsman, newsman, call an ambulance, we need an ambulance." John got back into the car and just as he was reaching the car . . . a bullet came through the door jam. He dove into the car and made the phone call . . . And we had to physically make the phone call. And this is to my understanding that this is first time an ambulance had been called. This was well into the gun battle. For some reason they didn't have any communications, why would we have to call an ambulance? .....

James Cavanaugh, ATF Special Agent: Nobody was going to get us out. The McLennan County Sheriffs office, who always did a good job, in this case, could not get us out of this. We couldn't call 911; I mean we couldn't call anybody. .....

Bill McCollum, US Congress, Florida (R): Well it just seems interesting to me that they didn't even have telephones or communications to get that 911 communication back and forth, that Wayne Martin had from inside the compound for 20 minutes to try and stop the shooting. But at the same time they had fax machines, telephones and computers and were ready for whatever PR (public relations) they had that that was a mighty strange operation to say the least, it's certainly a fatal flaw, not to pun a word......."

Could you insert a sentence or two as to who this Byers fellow is and why he is important to Waco? Same request for the next paragraph, re Bell and Gordon.

Byers is important in showing that the ATF was used in the operation to shutdown dangerous weapons components in a populated area. The theory is that neither the intelligence community nor the military community can move on a civilian target on U.S. grounds - and therefore have a pattern of using agencies such as the BATF:

In Chuck Byers words, a 2/14/98 letter to the Chairman of the House Intelligence Oversight Committee "..... My specialized knowledge of ordinance, explosives and pyrotechnics may provide the missing insights needed to solve several major terrorist crimes. For 15 years my company ACCURACY SYSTEMS ORDINANCE CORPORATION, provided specialized explosive devices to law enforcement, the military, Special Forces and the Central Intelligence Agency..........As you read this letter Accuracy Systems' former munitions manufacturing facilities in New River, Arizona are under occupation of the BATF who moved onto the property Sept. 20, 1997 and have been occupying the facilities there at considerable expense to the tax payers ever since. Their intent from the start has been to "blow up" the explosives magazines and burn our former research and development workshop and its contents --- and in the process --- destroy certain evidence that can link U S aircraft bombings to the CIA, a former client of Accuracy Systems..... "

Bell is another instance where weapon(s) of mass destruction were being developed in a residential area, in his garage. Here's a bit more on Bell and probably a clue or so as to why he was being investigated: "......Jeff Gordon thought he had seen it all. A veteran IRS investigator, Gordon's job since 1988 had been to probe threats and assaults against his fellow agents. There was no shortage in recent years--stabbings, fires, mortar attacks, and big unexploded bombs outside IRS offices in Los Angeles and Reno, Nevada. But in the first months of this year, Gordon found himself working on the strangest case of his career. From an informant, he had learned of a Portland, Ore., man named James Dalton Bell. Bell owed some $30,000 in back taxes and served as a juror in a local "common law court." Dozens of these self-appointed tribunals have issued "fines" and even death sentences against public officials. Bell was also active in antigovernment forums on the Internet, where he had posted a dark scheme threatening murder of troublesome federal agents. Participants could send encrypted messages to each other, Bell proposed, offering donations to whoever "predicted" how long a targeted official would live. The winner, presumably the assassin, would be rewarded with electronic fund transfers from anonymous donors, he suggested. Gordon checked further. Bell, it turned out, was an electronics engineer at a nearby circuit board manufacturer. He was also an MIT-educated chemist who had been arrested eight years earlier for making methamphetamine, but pleaded guilty to a lesser charge. According to court records, Bell had once told a friend: "The first thing to remember is: Never make a chemist angry at you." ...... Investigators have found biochemical agents in the hands of political extremists, extortionists, murderers, and the mentally ill. U.S. News has learned that the FBI has 50 current investigations of individuals suspected of using or planning to use radiological, biological, or chemical agents. ...."

I read something about an attempt or effort to deal with this "spill" but can't recall how effective it was. Detail here would be great. And what on God's green earth was the United States government doing, dumping multiplied hundreds of gallons of diesel so close to a dwelling that housed scores of people? Has any explanation been offered? An inquiring mind wants to know.

Here are a few clues:

Freeper amom ".....From " was cited that the primary areas of responsibility which would come under focus with relation to FBI assistance would be the environmental clean-up with relation to spillage of approximately 2,000 gallons of diesel fuel during clearing operations of the south side of the complex which took place on or about Sunday, March 21, 1993..." I don't know this has always just sort of stuck in my mind.

Published Book 1995 Dick Reavis Freeper rowdee reports ".... In the course of the siege, FBI rammed and spilled no less than two thousand gallons of diesel fuel, stored in tanks about sixty feet from the building. The Texas Water Commission later complained, and FBI accepted responsibility for the cleanup. 2,000 gallons spread in a one-inch layer will make a pool a hundred ten feet in diameter. The building--constructed of wood in a dry climate--became all the more flammable. (Strangely, there is no indication that the spill was mentioned to the government's fire experts....)

1/96 Expert Testimony Richard Sherrow "... External electrical power was turned off to the structure prior to the fire but a diesel generator of unknown capacity was present within the structure and had been known to be energized intermittently between February 28 and April 19, 1993.

It looks like they didn't want to Davidians to have the ability to create their own power. They had shut off electricity. Perhaps this is relevant to Freeper gwmoore's observations about refrigerated storage of WMD components?

Has a logical reason been given anywhere for why the fire at Mt. Carmel was so HUGE, other than the CS gas? When I saw Waco burning, I couldn't believe the fireball effect and the height of the fire. I've seen large buildings burn before, buildings that had chemicals in them. Never saw a fire like Waco.

Indeed! We conducted a Freeper research project on the Hole in the Bunker and the Fireball. The results are here: Hole in the Bunker and Fireball Research

Gunther Russbacher - request to include introductory background on him

He was Wilcher’s client in the RICO case, the person who lined up the others who wanted to come forward about Waco, and the source of a lot of Wilcher’s information. The background I’ve read on him indicates he had about 30 years in Naval Intelligence and CIA. He was allegedly the pilot in the October Surprise incident. He was in prison at the time of Wilcher’s death and since then has been alleged to have degrading mental capabilities.

Who filed the RICO case, and did it involve Wilcher?

Best I can tell, the RICO case involved Russbacher as plaintiff and Wilcher was plaintiff’s attorney. The judge, Parsons, allegedly died under mysterious circumstances and all documents and evidence went missing

What is "the black box that the CIA wanted the Rangers to retrieve"?

The "black box" was a Freeper remark made on the first entry in the "opinions" section below. Perhaps this might help:
Graeme Craddock, who is now incarcerated in Louisiana for a 20 year term, was in charge of equipment at Mount Carmel during the siege. He has been writing about his experiences on April 19th, and the lies the FBI told about the Davidians that day. However, something he remembered recently from that day puzzles him--the nature of a box found in the back of the gymnasium before the fire that day. It was brought to him by another fire survivor who is not incarcerated. (Because the batteries were still working, he doubts it was dropped by the BATF agent who was in the gymnasium on February 28, 1993.)

Graeme would like help identifying the object from any of you familiar with equipment used by federal agencies or the military. He left it in the building when he escaped and has heard nothing about what, if any, remains were found after the fire.

Craddock describes a small plastic black box, approximately 2.5 by 2.5 by 3/4 inches. It has an FCC label. On the broad top are two red flashing devices and two nobs, an "on" and an "off." On the broad bottom is a hatch door for the two AAA batteries inside. On the narrow front side are a "frequency" dial and a "pulse width" dial.

He says this was not a "home made" but obviously a manufactured device. And it did not have a microphone, so it was not a surveillance device. Since he does not know if it was found before or after the tanks first crashed into the gym, he does not know if it was dropped from or fell out of a tank.


Freeper Opinions and Responses

You said Although the CIA's name keeps popping up where it should not (Colby, the FLIR tape, the black box that the CIA wanted the Rangers to retrieve), IMO the Company is just the usual whipping boy. I would bet on the military if "national security" is a factor

I couldn’t agree with you more on that one! The CIA has taken on the chin way too much IMHO. It seems to me that the military is squarely in the middle of this at the highest levels suggesting a real and present threat to national security. The extreme effort to conceal the military involvement after the fact – going so far as to not even mention the obvious in the official reports, is what first caused me to suspect that the motive was not evil as many suggest. Also, even though there may be some with evil motive – to pull this off would require the cooperation of a lot of regular patriotic grunts to accomplish a very bad thing. I don’t think they would have participated at all unless they truly believed it was for a very good reason, i.e. in the interest of national security.

Measuring how much water is left in the tanks that supplied the church does not suggest a bio-chemical weapon.

If this were all I had to go on, the suggestion would indeed be groundless. All of the evidence must be viewed together. Here are some of the disturbing facts concerning just the (alleged) water:

Reno ordered FLIR monitoring of it before the assault
Ghigliotti highlighted it as important to Dave Hardy before his death
Survivor said they were collecting and drinking rainwater
The supply was rapidly depleting between the 14th and the 18th
The people trying to leave were being flash-banged back in and concertina wire laid, keeping the residents isolated ever since the spill and presence of 4 Delta Force observers on March 21st.

These facts are suggestive to me, but it’s ok that they aren’t to you!

If there were a bio chemical (WMD) at Waco those with knowledge of same (ie CIA , NSA whatever)would have been derelict in their duty to allow those inital raid bungling BATF agents to charge in there in cattle cars with guns a blazing as they do so would have been not only committing murder upon those uninformed agents, but high treason and murder upon this nation. So, there is no doubt in my mind that as a matter of national security, they would have forewarned them or disallowed the raid all together... where a different approach would have been taken to this threat of national security involving a bio chemical of massive destruction potential.

Whereas you may consider it to be a dereliction of duty, nevertheless dealing with a potential biochem in proximity to innocent population appears in other incidents (Byers and Bell)

…the fact remains that the Feds bulldozed the compound before anyone independent could get a good look, and that makes everything the government says on this case suspect. In addition, the Waco survivors were each given inordianantly long sentences for simply being there, and two independent investigators investigating Waco have died under less than open circumstances…..

Agreed! There is a long list of anomalies listed above that I personally believe should be logically and naturally resolved by any good theory.

There are a number of deaths which are alarming to me: Wilcher, Ghigliotti, Sheriff Harwell, Vince Foster, William Colby, Eddie Pack, Rev Roger Howard, Manual Howard, James Ray Dobbins . And there’s the near deaths of Allard and Zegel.

I don't think we'll ever have the full answers

On this point I would agree with Ghigliotti that the truth is known and will come out.

I can't see the BATF and FBI as the white hats in this case. And that's not making Korresh out to be a saint either.

I don’t think either side is a white hatter either.


Frequently Asked Questions concerning logic and reasoning

If this were true why wouldn’t Clinton have bragged about how he had saved millions of people by stopping a WMD?

I believe that if there were a real WMD threat, Clinton had good cause not to reveal it:

if the weapon was US and/or British made in violation of treaties and without full Congressional oversight; and/or

if the weapon was needed in the stockpile to offset nuclear arms reductions; and/or

if deep cover agents would be put at mortal risk if the public knew; and/or

if they believed the public would panic causing economic backlash.

I believe it would have greatly annoyed him not to be able to brag about it outside his inner circle, but even if he didn't care about anyone else, I still believe he would not risk his own political goal for a global economy.

I feel like such an idiot!!! It suddenly dawned on me today another very important reason the government could not brag about saving the country from a WMD at Waco: The assassination of any person - even though they may have had slam-dunk proof of the intent to kill millions by WMD - nevertheless would be an enormous violation of their civil rights and premeditated murder under Texas law.

Freeper kosciuszko "…It was of utmost importance to keep everyone involved ignorant of what the others were doing. In order to keep everyone mum and toeing the official line, it was best if they believed that they were all privy to a secret that could compromise national security if disclosed. In that way, they could lie and still feel they were doing their patriotic duty. Otherwise, everything would have been open to public scrutiny, they all would have compared notes afterwards, and the Clinton lies would not have stood. These forces -- FBI, BATF, etc. -- would have found out that they were all lied to, once everyone started talking. As you note, it is only now that many of them are coming to that realization…."

Freeper jedediah smith "…..It would have opened up a can of worms for the government to admit they had WMD. In other words, the government would have wanted to use the cleanest excuse available for destroying the compound………… If the government had said Koresh was working on an anthrax bomb or something, that would have attracted all kinds of public attention to the affair. There would have been all kinds of questions asked, e.g. "Why did the government blow the place up (or not take precautions against explosions) if there were biological agents there? They could have been dispersed among the populace." And then there may have been investigations into how Koresh got the biologicals, etc. which would have revealed the government's true involvement. It was simply a lot cleaner to say the BDs were a bunch of Bible nuts who set themselves on fire. Case closed and no need to investigate further. …."

Why would the government pass up a chance to justify all it had done at Waco by showing the weapon lab.

I have responded as the first FAQ as to my theories why the government wouldn’t have been able to take credit for saving us from a WMD attack. Additionally, they couldn’t "show" a WMD assembly site they just incinerated to dust to decontaminate it.


The Davidians (at least 7 of them) had a WMD that could kill millions and intended to use it to teach the world a lesson and fulfill end-time prophecy

Why all of them, women and kids too?

I believe the women and kids were all contaminated, maybe even on purpose (to spread the WMD posthumously.) Survivors, other than those who were government plants and would have avoided contamination, would have been very carefully isolated and monitored. I believe all the survivors came from other than the kitchen area where the WMD was alleged located.

Why kill the children, again? You answer this by positing that maybe the women and kids were "contaminated". I guess I don't know what this means.

When everything started coming down on April 19th, I do believe the government was expecting the mom and kids to head out the front door but instead they went into the kitchen/bunker area. That is the area where the WMD was allegedly located. I could see two scenarios; either the tank breaching in to gas the bunker caused a spill and contaminated the women and kids or the women were frantically mixing or assembling the WMDs while the siege was going on, contaminating themselves and the kids. I don’t think the DFG intentionally targeted them. But when they came upon them they were already dying or dead and all they could do was to end the suffering.

Why then?

Geopolitical and calendar events of end time prophecy. Possibly the astronomical sign that Koresh said was his. On March 11, 1993 Schneider mentioned to the FBI that Koresh was listening to Paul Harvey on the radio and that Harvey described a "shooting star" called the "guitar nebula." Schneider said that "David takes it as a sign."

Archy "…..… But the period of the initial BATF raid was also that timeframe during which the NAFTA agreements, of enourmous political and economic significance were being hammered into place. Now, five years after the NAFTA signing, we know that the supposed benefits aren't in fact taking place, so there has to have been some other motivations for forcefeeding those protocols down the throats of a compliant America……I wonder if perhaps Koresh might have found a way to sabotage the then-upcoming NAFTA agreement in old testament terms, with the sounding of a horn and the lighting of the sky.

Why not just Koresh?

Contaminates and knowledge

Why did he have to be killed? Why could neither the first BATF death squad that wounded him during the initial contact nor the later FBI tank snipers allow him to live to have a day in a public courtroom.

A live Koresh (and his insiders) with the knowledge and will to make a WMD - would continue to be a threat to millions. They could escape or pass the information on to others.

What did David Koresh know, and when did he learn it?

I suspect it had something to do with his trip to Israel – when he started getting visions. Wilcher said he was CIA. I don’t know but there were many from strange places in the world that came to Mt Carmel along the way from his Israel trip to the fiery end.


Why would they send in the BATF (as opposed to the FBI or the Secret Service or some other group) for the initial February raid if the Davidians were thought to have a WMD? Such a weapon would surely justify a much more vigorous response by some more competent branch of federal law enforcement.

The short answer is that the BATF is used as a front to shut down civilian threats related to military or intelligence issues and BATF was already investigating the BDs. The long answer is:

I believe Koresh was already under investigation by intelligence and/or military, either national or international, when the firearms investigation of Koresh began on a tip from a UPS delivery man to the local sheriff’s department. The BATF conducted a normal, non-urgent investigation, as if they didn’t know about the other investigation or the threat of a WMD.

I believe that shortly after Clinton was elected, the other investigation(s) of Koresh became known to the BATF. This could have been a result of normal investigation (Aguilera refers to the sensitive nature of some contacts in his affidavit) – or it could have been due to Clinton’s long term friendship with ATF Buford out of Little Rock.

It was probably described to the BATF as national security and few details were offered, but due to the nature of the threat, the military had to become involved. The BATF has been used to shutdown operations for other agencies (see the Byers incident above) - so it would be natural for them to be the "front" for eliminating a civilian threat of this nature where the military or intelligence - cannot operate in the open. I also believe the military intelligence knew the WMD had not yet been assembled and thus there was no immediate danger – just a need to eliminate the problem (like the Byer incident.)

The trick with the military involvement was that the BATF could not afford to pay the tab for the Mt Carmel raid, so the military and the BATF concocted a scheme to fabricate a drug nexus. All costs were to be paid this way because it was a military/intelligence operation - even the FBI’s involvement was paid. So that left the BATF with a big budget, new equipment and such and ready to do a big raid. It was a great time to showoff and the media contacts were made.

Here are two important signs:

07 JUL 1992 ATF Agents Jimmy Ray Skinner and Davy Aguilera visited McMahon (Koresh associate) - while there, McMahon called Koresh; Koresh invited the agents out to inspect what he had but they declined

00 DEC 1992 BATF Director Stephen Higgins said there was no probable cause to obtain a warrant; ATF agents requested CQB training by US Army Special Forces (after incident Treasury investigation does not refer to the request); US Attorney Johnston said the ATF had discussed capturing Koresh outside the compound and then searching inside but "inexplicably" the plans shifted to a "big paramilitary" raid.....

I just don't see the BD's being sophisticated enough to create/manufacture a WMD. Wilcher's report on mind control seems potentially a "planted" theory as well.

My theory does not hinge at all on any of the mind control assertions made by Wilcher. But Wilcher obviously was onto something. He was the first to identify the Delta Force involvement (6.5 years before the media.) Therefore, I cannot just dismiss what he says out-of-hand that easily. He said he was not speaking with first hand knowledge but was representing a group of people who wanted to come forward. He was trying to cut a deal for them with Reno, thinking that she was not part of the group involved. His report is written like a legal brief, meandering through court cases and history trying to lead Reno to the same conclusion and next step. Wilcher was an attorney.

Wilcher said that Koresh was CIA and there were 6 others with him. He said they were a "cell" and there were other cells in other states. I have seen nothing to support it nor would I expect to find anything substantive to support the identification of any covert intelligence operation. It wouldn’t be logical to me.

What I do see about Koresh that makes me raise an eyebrow is his extensive traveling and recruitment, especially out of the country. The first red flag is how on earth could a drifter, a musician and handyman afford to do that? Another is his managing to attract 40 people from other countries to the compound – and their overstaying their own visas. That is the kind of activity I would expect to see from someone with intelligence connections. Also, the technical knowledge may not have been with Koresh but with one of the others.

Relating to the feasibility of a WMD threat by civilians: "…Worried that the stink bomb was a trial run for something much worse, on April 1, authorities raided Bell's home. They seized five computers and three semiautomatic assault rifles, then opened his garage door. Before them stood dozens of containers filled with chemicals. There were volatile solvents, explosives ingredients, sodium cyanide, nitric acid, and diisopropyl fluorophosphate--one of several ingredients that, if properly mixed, form nerve gas--all in a residential neighborhood. "The level and type of chemicals were extremely unusual," said Leroy Loiselle, who managed the cleanup for the Environmental Protection Agency. "You don't need nitric acid to keep aphids off your flowers." ……… On Bell's computers, Gordon found two other items: the names and home addresses of over 100 public officials--IRS employees, FBI agents, local police officers--and a 169-page document, The Terrorist's Handbook, with detailed instructions for making chemical weapons and high explosives. Bell's friends told investigators that he had tried using green beans to make botulin toxin, which causes botulism, and that he claimed to have successfully made sarin, the nerve gas used by Japanese cultists in their 1995 attack on the Tokyo subway…."

About the feasibility of sleeper agents ( the sleepers were called MK-Ultra in the alleged after action report): Prepared Statement of Admiral Stansfield Turner, Director of Central Intelligence …….. Mr. Chairman: In my letter to you of July 15, 1977, I reported our recent discovery of seven boxes of documents related to Project MKULTRA, a closely held CIA project conducted from 1953-1964. As you may recall, MKULTRA was an "umbrella project" under which certain sensitive subprojects were funded, involving among other things research on drugs and behavioral modification. …..
Until the recent discovery, it was believed that all of the MKULTRA files dealing with behavioral modification had been destroyed in 1973 on the orders of the then retiring Chief of the Office of Technical Service, with the authorization of the DCI, as has been previously reported. Almost all of the people who had had any connection with the aspects of the project which interested Senate investigators in 1975 were no longer with the Agency at that time. Thus, there was little detailed knowledge of the MKULTRA subprojects available to CIA during the Church Committee investigations. This lack of available details, moreover, was probably not wholly attributable to the
destruction of MKULTRA files in 1973; the 1963 report on MKULTRA by the Inspector General notes on page 14: "Present practice is to maintain no records of the planning and approval of test programs."……. First, there are 149 MKULTRA subprojects, many of which appear to have some connection with research into behavioral modification, drug acquisition and testing or administering drugs surreptitiously…….. In broad outline, at least, this presents the contents of these files. The activities are placed in the following 15 categories:

1. Research into the effects of behavioral drugs and/or alcohol:
2. Research on hypnosis: 8 subprojects, including 2 involving hypnosis and drugs in combination.
3. Acquisition of chemicals or drugs: 7 subprojects.
4. Aspects of magicians' art useful in covert operations: e.g., surreptitious delivery of drug-related materials: 4 subprojects.
5. Studies of human behavior, sleep research, and behavioral changes during psychotherapy: 9 subprojects.
6. Library searches and attendance at seminars and international conferences on behavioral modification: 6 subprojects.
7. Motivational studies, studies of defectors, assessment, and training techniques: 23 subprojects.
8. Polygraph research: 3 subprojects.
9. Funding mechanisms for MKULTRA external research activities: 3 subprojects.
10. Research on drugs, toxins, and biologicals in human tissue; provision of exotic pathogens and the capability to incorporate them in effective delivery systems: 6 subprojects.
11. Activities whose objectives cannot be determined from available documentation: 3 subprojects.
12. Subprojects involving funding support for unspecified activities connected with the Army's Special Operations Division at Fr. Detrick, Md.. …..
13. Single subprojects in such areas as effects of electro-shock, harassment techniques for offensive use, analysis of extrasensory perception, gas propelled sprays and aerosols, and four subprojects involving crop and material sabotage.
14. One or two subprojects on each of the following: "Blood Grouping" research, controlling the activity of animals, energy storage and transfer in organic systems; and stimulus and response in biological systems.
15. Three subprojects canceled before any work was done on them having to do with laboratory drug screening, research on brain concussion, and research on biologically active materials to be tested through the skin on human volunteers.

Freeper Ol’ Dan Tucker "….When I wrote about a steady barrage of gunfire, I'm not suggesting indiscriminate gunfire, but rather gunfire directed at specific areas of the building. In this case it would be the chapel and the underground shelter as described by Carlos through Hardy. But all of the ~200 flashes that are alleged to be gunfire recorded on the FLIR were recorded outside the building, not inside.

Let's bear in mind that according to Ghigliotti, this running gun battle of which he counted just under 200 rounds before the fire "overpowered" the ability of the FLIR to continue recording the muzzle flashes took place in the 30-45 minutes or so before the fire broke out and continued until the building was pretty well engulfed in flames. Supposedly as the fire got larger, the outside team had to back off due to the heat being generated. But, it's a little unreasonable to assume that a team was inside killing people at close range then mutilating their bodies at the same time that a team on the outside was firing into the back of the building herding them into the kill zone.

Considering the nature of the gunshot wounds, it makes more sense to me that a single team would have been inside and they shot the people, mutilated their bodies and dumped them into the pantry. This could have taken place in the days leading up to April 19 or it could have occurred on the final day with the Methylene Chloride acting as a debillitating agent and the CS being used as a fuel to guarantee the complete destruction of the building. An interesting aside to the Methylene Chloride (MC) used as a carrier for the CS is that when MC is breathed it is metabolized as Carbon Monoxide (CM), so any of the victims found with CM in their system could have been poisoned with MC. The presences of CM in the system of the victims has been used to show that they were alive up to the time up of the fire breaking out and this may not necessarily be the case.

I also understand what you're saying about how Ian says he clearly saw the mylar panel flapping in the breeze while Carlos saw gunfire and confirmed it on videotape. But, I'm a little concerned that the main people pushing the FLIR have had more than a passing involvement with the federal government and that they may still be a part of the cover story. I'm also concerned that the FLIR is still being used as a diversion from the real evidence of the government crimes, namely the condition of the bodies and the lies told in the autopsy reports. Everyone pushing the FLIR in an official capacity is carefully avoiding the victims who were reported to have died from the collapsed roof.

The producers of WANR intentionally misrepresented the location of the bodies by saying the 15 or so gunshot wound victims' bodies were recovered from the area of the dining room and that Riddle's and Henry's bodies were recovered outside the building. It seems to me that all of this is designed to direct attention away from the condition of the bodies and the hole in the roof of the pantry.

I'm taking a wait and see attitude about Ghigliotti's videotaped evidence. Again, we only have Hardy's word to go on about what Ghigliotti says can be seen on them. Until we can see and examine the evidence for ourselves, IMO, this remains hearsay. ……"

In the WMD theory, the inserted team would have used extreme prejudice against Koresh and anyone threateningly close to the WMD, which would include precise gunshots to the head, other gunfire, severing appendages, vicious knife wounds or whatever else DFG might do in such a situation to prevent the WMD from being released. There would have been some dead or dying from contamination, some comatose or incapacitated. For the ones awake and in pain, I would imagine they would have taken them down before setting the explosion/incineration. It seems the comatose ones would have shown CM poisoning in the autopsies. Just my theory... "…….Joseph Martinez (Mt. Carmel Doe 52) and Crystal Martinez (Mt. Carmel Doe 57) are recognizable as human forms. Their Autopsy Reports indicate that the remains were only moderately decomposed, and suffered little charring. ……. But the remains of Katherine Andrade (Mt. Carmel Doe 30) and John McBean (Mt. Carmel Doe 32) were virtually incinerated. This is an unexpected effect, given that there is little to burn in a concrete room, and given that the fire lasted only 40 minutes. ………Some corpses were so decomposed that the connective tissue between the bones had disintegrated, causing the bodies to fall apart (the process is called "disarticulation.") Other corpses were so decomposed that the internal organs were unrecognizable, had turned to mush, or were liquefied. From a review of professional literature, we will see that this degree of decomposition is usually effected over a long period of time.

I thought these theories were one and the same, i.e., the sleepers had been awaked prematurely and were building a WMD.

The sleeper theory which is roughly the same as Wilcher's assertions, requires a WMD. The WMD theory on the other hand, does not require the sleeper assertions to be true.

Without any knowledge at all of the Wilcher report, I had concluded from the published evidence that the events at Waco point to a WMD threat. Later, after reading the Wilcher report, I was amazed to see how closely the WMD assertions made back in 1993 fit the information we had developed as of 2000.

His additional assertions of sleepers being awakened were not necessary to the WMD theory and the evidence didn't speak to the assertions one way or the other, so I ignored them. Therefore, there are two theories - the core WMD theory and the Sleeper theory.

If Wilcher knew what he was talking about, then the entire responsibility for the WMD was the federal government's, specifically whatever agency programmed the "sleepers". I cannot yet buy this theory.

I don’t believe that Wilcher’s sleeper assertions - if proven - would have any material impact on this theory, so I didn’t attempt to address it. However, if Koresh and 6 others had been programmed by the government, it would indeed increase their culpability and need to cover-up. The statement before Congress by Admiral Stansfield Turner, Director of Central Intelligence indicates to me that a sleeper (Mk-Ultra) allegation should be taken seriously.

Koresh was aware that he was being watched but we don't know why he thought he was being targetted. We do know that he did actively campaign for Bill Clinton in 1992 and that his two top aides tried (unsuccessfully, I think) to speak with Clinton when he campaigned in Waco in 1992. This is not what an anti-government zombie building a WMD would do. Rather it suggests (perhaps like Wilicher?) that he was to ally Clinton by campaigning for him and perhaps giving him some incriminating information about people in the Bush administration.

Thank you so much for the additional information on Koresh’s support for Clinton. I will check into it further, it may have bearing on the timeline. I do not think Koresh was necessarily an anti-government zombie … he could have been very pro-government and highly alert - and still be fixing to execute a WMD in obedience to his vision of end time prophecy.

Why did they (apparently) originally want to publicize this whole thing so much? The plain ol' vanilla "Media event/ATF budget PR" theory seems to explain this satisfactorily, but if it was a WMD you'd think the last thing they'd want would be to publicize it until after it had been pulled off successfully (at which point they could concoct a cover story.)

I don’t believe the military told the BATF any more than they had to, but the military intelligence was that the WMD had not been assembled yet, so there was no immediate threat. I do believe the BATF (probably especially Buford) saw this as a great opportunity to show themselves off. They weren’t expecting anything to go wrong. Jeepers! They didn’t have an ambulance – or even a phone. Martin and Koresh had been on 911 for something like 20 minutes from inside the compound and all the BATF could do was to ask the press guys to call 911.

The Feb. raid was such a disaster, and this could not have been a compeltely unexpected result. If there were really weapons of mass destruction I can't believe that the Feds would rely only on the BATF without backup from other more professional agencies. If it turns out that the BATF is more competent than I am assuming, or that there were non-BATF people there during the Feb. raid and BATF incompetence was too overwhelming for them to overcome it, then my theory could be shot down. It just seems incredible to me that if the Feds thought there were WMD at Mt. Carmel that they would let BATF handle it.

A lot of the BDs were at a gunshow at the time of the raid. And the BATF had just completed special training by Green Berets at Ft. Hood. I believe they thought they were ready.

But the real players there were the 4 ATF agents who had been Clinton bodyguards and were part of the special team headed by Buford. Of course, they were all killed execution style except for Buford.

According to archy’s research, Conway LeBleu of the *special unit* met Koresh with a burst of automatic weapons fire from the silenced H&K MP5SD submachinegun he was carrying. That sounds a lot more like a professional hit than a BATF raid and the fact that all of them were subsequently executed, it seems to me that they were the "ace in the hole" you are looking for - and were either eliminated for their failure by their own side – or perhaps some of the BD (possibly an intelligence type like Wilcher mentioned) took the special unit out.

If a WMD were indeed the target, wouldn't the Feds have used a special forces team such as Delta or SEALS instead of a full frontal daylight assault by the ATF? And in front of cameras and reporters, I might add.

Please refer to my two previous replies for some background. To those posts I would add that a military operation as you suggest would require approval by a newly elected president.

Also, I’m very curious about those 4 ATF guys on the special team. Freepers have uncovered that the FBI Hostage Rescue Team (HRT) is roughly the equivalent of CAG (Combat Action Group) which leaves me wondering if the BATF Special Response Team is also. If so, it might explain why these particular guys were bodyguards to a presidential candidate…

None of the BATF raiders show any indications of a concern with a possible biochemical weapon. The photos of the raid show them without basic protection such as gas masks. …. The fact is that even the precursors to biochemical WMD are themselves toxic. The authorities had no way to know what other materials might be present, not directly a part of the WMD, which also might be toxic. Especially dangerous are the unpredictable byproducts of a lab fire, which can easily include highly toxic compounds like dioxin. Unless, of course, the burned wreckage is not of a WMD but of ordinary kitchen materials and cooking supplies. Then it's okay to go over the remains with just work gloves on.

In the 2/28/93 raid, I’m sure it was no more of a threat than the Byers and Bell instances mentioned above. No residents were evacuated in those instances, the agents apparently weren’t wearing protective gear.

In my theory, the top secret robots may also have been detecting chemicals or contaminates. Perhaps that is the reason for their being so "top secret." At any rate, the tempo of the siege changed dramatically on March 21st after the 4 Delta Force observers were there and there was a spill. After that date the Davidians were aggressively contained inside the compound and the assault plan was being urgently promoted.

If they were indeed creating contaminates from either the components or from assembly, then the very peculiar incineration of 4/19/93 – particularly in the bunker - would be quite logical in my view. And presuming the robots were still functioning, they would know whether or not it would be safe to enter without special gear.

There are U.S. munitions in the experimental stages intended specifically to reduce collateral contamination by penetrating bunkers before detonating or by destroying CBW agents through incineration rather than explosion.

Even KNOWING that the element of surprise had been lost, the BATF went ahead with the raid rather than send the reporters home. Does that sound like the actions of a tam that is in any way concerned about the prsence of a WMD, in a possibly unknown state of completion?

Absolutely! That’s part of my evidence. National security would have demanded BATF go through with the raid even though they were found out. And I’m sure the military would not have told them any more than they needed to know. Since under my theory the WMD had not been assembled as of Feb 28th, the reporters and BATF agents were not in peril of a biochem.

WMD's exist because of their deterrent value. But nobody in the BATF raid acted as if such a deterrent was a factor. It was all about posing for the press, and it's equally obvious that the BATF raided the church expecting little in the way of resistance. It was supposed to be a slam-dunk. That expectation alone makes it clear hat the BATF wasn't expecting much in the way of conventional arms, let alone a WMD. The photo at make it clear that the BATF Raiders were not wearing any form of HASMAT equipment during the initial raid.

There is no presumption that the WMD had been assembled on the initial raid. To the contrary, my theory is that it was not assembled and therefore they would attempt to take the operation down as they did with Byers - and Bell.

As to a "deterrent" - Koresh had the will and vision to bring about the end of world prophecy. Deterring would not have been on his end of the world agenda, execution on the other hand, would be.

If Koresh had a WMD, he could have threatened to use it to force the government to stop the initial assault, the seige, or the final assault.

On this point I would disagree and suggest that such a threat would have the reverse effect. As I recall, the government policy is never to negotiate on terrorism – so a threat like that would have resulted in immediate destruction IMHO.

And again, I have a problem with the idea that the church had a WMD sitting through all the siege and did not make use of it or it's components. For example, the precursors to VX nerve gas are in themselves quite lethal.

As I have mentioned on the previous answer, any threat to use a WMD would have brought the entire event to a rapid conclusion in my opinion. I do suspect that assembly or leakage was detected as of March 21st causing the sudden urgency of an assault - and isolation of the BDs.

If the government really thought there was a WMD inside the church, the only way to prevent it's use is a lightning raid that grabs the device before it can be activated. There is no way they would pull back and settle down for a long seige just waiting for the WMD to be detonated. Nobody would take the chance of assuming it wasn't usable. If indeed Koresch was an "end times" nut and was building the device to trigger the end of the world, why didn't he activate it some time during the long seige? The WMD scenario is not credible because had such a WMD existed, there is no reason for Koresch not to have set it off at some point during the seige, specially since he was shot and dying anyway.

"Activation" and "detonation" are assuming the WMD was nuclear. I do not believe it was nuclear. The evidence I’ve seen would indicate a bio-chemical weapon, probably a nerve gas toxin like Sarin gas – which would require assembly of components and delivery. The urgent isolation and military activity following the fuel spillage and the close monitoring of the water tanks suggest a bio-chem weapon. Also, since they already had close voice/visual monitoring and infiltration – it seems the top secret robots that were dispatched might have been bio-chem detection devices:

Additionally, the positioning of so many bodies in the bunker, the incineration evidence and the evidence of the hole in the bunker point to an intentional controlled decontamination of a bio-chem

No, the story of a WMD, even only partly assembled, is inconsistant with the willingness of the government to just sit for day after day after day outside the church.

I disagree. If the government was trying to get the innocents out - they would be as patient as they possibly could be. The entire tempo of the standoff changed suddenly on March 21st when two important things occurred: the presence of 4 Delta Force "observers" and a 2,000 gallon fuel spill. After that, the standoff became an intense isolation with people being flash-banged back into the compound and concertina wire being laid. The day before, 4/18/93, a Delta Force operative was within 6 feet of Koresh but was told not to grab him because they had a plan. Taken altogether, these facts make sense if a biochem assembly was nearing completion and/or if there were spillage or leaks possible.

IMO its pretty hard to keep a biowar facility secret from the 130 or so people who were living at Mt. Carmel.

On this point I would disagree. If they were trying to build a huge stockpile, they would need things like large fermentation tanks and no doubt most everyone would know about it, but from what I’ve read about the Iraqi biochem work, weapons development is very hard to detect simply because it can be done in a very small area with very few people. If Wilcher was on the right track, then it would have only been 7 of the BDs that actually knew anything about it – at least going into the raid.

Morever, to keep such a secret from hundreds of members involved in this community church is simply not credible. Anyone who has ever been involved in a church knows that the word gets out...and those builders would have needed a secret space to develop and contain such a weapon. They would have had restricted access alarming other members causing great suspicion and massive rumors would have been floating about the church involving this "top secret" area of restricted access where other members were denied entry.

(see above answer) … And this from the affidavit (notably if Koresh could conceal firearms he should have no problem concealing chemicals:)

"….Ms. Sparks also said that on April 6, 1992, she visited the compound again. On this occasion she talked with David Koresh. She asked Koresh about the firearms which she had been told by the small child. Koresh admitted that there were a few firearms there, but said that most of the adults did not know of them, and there were too few to be of any significance. Ms. Sparks said that when she pressed Koresh about the firearms and their location at the compound, he offered to show her around. He requested that she wait about 30 minutes until he could get the other residents out of the building so they would not see where he had the firearms stored. After a period of time, Ms. Sparks was escorted through part of the building by Koresh. She noted that there was more construction activity and that the inside of the structure looked quite different from her previous visit. Each time Ms. Sparks asked Koresh about the location of the firearms, he would tell her that they were in a safe place where the children could not get to them. He would then change the subject.

Ms. Sparks said that she noticed a trap door in the floor at one end of the building. When she inquired about it, Koresh allowed her to look into the trap door. She could see a ladder leading down into a buried school bus from which all the seats had been removed. At one end of the bus she could see a very large refrigerator with numerous bullet holes. She also saw three long guns lying on the floor of the bus, however, she did not know the make or caliber of them. She stated that there was no electricity in the bus. Everything she saw was with the aid of a pen light. When questioned by Ms. Sparks, Koresh said that the bus was where he practiced his target shooting in order not to disturb his neighbors.

Ms. Sparks felt the entire walk through the compound was staged for her by Koresh. When she asked to speak with some of the children and other residents, Koresh refused, stating they were not available. She said that during her conversation with Koresh, he told her that he was the "Messenger" from God, that the world was coming to an end, and that when he "reveals" himself the riots in Los Angeles would pale in comparison to what was going to happen in Waco, Texas. Koresh stated that it would be a "military type operation" and that all the "non-believers" would have to suffer. ….." "….According to one specialist in the field, an investment of $10,000 and a 15’ x 15’ room is all that is necessary to produce enough bacterium to satisfy the requirements of a national arsenal. [Larry Wayne] Harris showed just how easy it is to obtain virulent bacterium through the mail. Viruses and toxins useful to the terrorist can just as easily be stolen. …… "Approximately 1 million patients per year in the United States and Europe receive botulinum toxin injections as therapy for a variety of diseases," writes John F. Sopko, deputy chief counsel to the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, in a recent issue of Foreign Policy. "These deadly toxins, as well as the research that supports their use, can easily be accessed by would-be proliferants or terrorists without attracting the attention of most intelligence sources." ……"

I can find no evidence of a lab. How can one build a biological WMD without some sort of lab? While the lie that they had a meth lab was offered in order to involve the military and acquire additional funding for the project, to the best of my knowledge, no evidence of any kind of lab was found nor reported even by those agents on the inside of MT Carmel. If such a WMD lab existed they would have found it. They had access and it was their mission to discover...and discover they would have...

In the above article about Bell’s WMD components, he had everything in his garage.

In the alleged after-action report, the components were in the kitchen area and 12 were terminated by shots to the head and the area was incinerated – which happens to be the area in which 12 were in fact terminated by gunshot to the head and the adjacent bunker was where so many bodies (some already dead) were incinerated with what appears to be a downward and outward force from the area of the roof where a hole was recorded in photographs of the scene.

One thing that haunts me is, Why would it have been necessary to assassinate the unsuccessful assassins from the BATF (the former clinton bodyguards)? Apologies if this has already been addressed.

I can see three scenarios.

First scenario, the four agents - one of which appears to have been assigned to assassinate Koresh - were recognized by one or more Davidians (a Wilcher "sleeper" perhaps?) and were executed for their perceived "betrayal."

Second scenario, there was one or more additional covert operatives (foreign or domestic) in the assault team whose assignment was to eliminate potential testimony of an illegal assassination attempt in the event of failure.

Third scenario, the agents in guarding the presidential candidate and taking this Special Response Team task - became privy to information they couldn't be allowed to recall - so whether the assassination of Koresh succeeded or failed, they would marked for death. In theory, the information could be related to the weapon itself, if it were developed covertly by the US and/or England in violation of Treaties and without full Congressional oversight.

How could Delta be so out of touch with DC as to penetrate the building on April 18, be close enough to nab or shoot Koresh, and not know that this was totally unnecessary because another plan was in place?

Freeper Ada Coddington pointed out that the grunts – I presume even Delta Force operatives – would know only what they had to know.

Also, I believe the infiltration was necessary. The Delta Force operatives infiltrated on several occasions, I suspect to gather intelligence and if the top secret robots were detecting biochem components, then perhaps to confirm the readings, location, etc.


This same theory is esposed by those who propose the Davidians set fire to themselves and had resolved themselves to suicide. This theory is inconsistent. Had the Davidians or Koresh accepted suicide and possessed a WMD or even major components thereof and possessed the mental make-up as proposed by the Administration, then why start a complicated fire as opposed to use the components of the WMD? I forget the article or thread which alluded to this theory, but it took highly localized quotes from surveillance devices in the Davidian church/compound and used them to imply the fire was staged by Koresh while they possessed a WMD. The quotes could also be fully understood to imply Koresh had a deeply studied impression of prophecy in Scripture, which led him to these statements (quoted out of context.)

Whether or not the Davidians started a fire to commit suicide is not material to the WMD theory. Nor would it make much sense to set the fires for that purpose and then turnaround and execute one another leaving so many children alone to suffer such a death.

If the conversation picked up on bugs on 4/19/93 was fabricated or misread it would be material as part of a cover-up.

Under my WMD theory, suicide might have been involved in the delivery of a WMD as it was with the Japanese attacks. At least one person leaving the compound indicated a suicide pact. Notably, the Davidians had been taught to commit suicide with a gunshot to the mouth – though only Schneider’s autopsy would be consistent with that manner of death.

There also appears to be a dedicated effort to contort Koresh's position on prophecy and Scripture to directly imply intent to commit suicide or mass murder. If indeed Koresh was so maniacal, then why not allow his rantings to be released in full and unedited? I note that the web site devoted to the "Seven Seals" which was the product of writing delaying Koresh's surrender has been pulled, but 3rd party reports of his analyses which are anti-Koresh, pro-Administration viewpoint are on the web. Too much cover-up going on by the government and too much active suppression of the "losing" point of view by the Administration and spin machine to ignore (IMHO).

Koresh never had a chance to finish documenting the Seven Seals when the assault happened on 4/19/93, he had finished the First Seal on 4/16/93.

Conversations attributed to him before and throughout the siege indicate a preoccupation with the end-of-world prophecies with him and the Davidians as part of it. He spent many hours preaching to the FBI negotiators.

In his conversation with the FBI on 3/6/93 Koresh refers to himself as the Lamb receiving the book, as the Lord and as Christ – all of these terms are in the book of Revelations, and interpreting them in this way clearly indicates that Koresh saw himself as the executioner of end of world judgments.

A key anomaly is that he would insist on documenting the Seven Seals while under siege and wounded, with no electricity for computers or typewriters – when he could have done the same on the outside, even in prison. I believe that is an indication that he was writing the explanation for the planned mass destruction, so that people would understand the reason for it.

Supposing someone or someones wanting the desired outcome created a theory of a WMD just in order to involve DFG and other federal law enforcement?

Originally, I thought the National Security threat was probably fabricated to keep the silence and coerce the grunts into doing something they would otherwise loathe. I now suspect the threat was real and present. My opinion changed when I started building the timelines and could see more clearly the building weight and urgency of military support, the stunning effort to cover-up evidence, and recently, the very peculiar activity in the civil case concerning the Judge, the attorneys, the survivors, various witnesses and plaintiffs. And then I read the Wilcher report which contained a number of assertions that strangely fit the theory extremely well.

There's no lab. There's no sign of the required equipment needed to handle such substances, let alone any evidence of the means of delivery. What were the Branch Davidians going to do, walk into the center of town holding the stuff cupped in their hands and toss it in the air?

You don’t need a laboratory to make a bio-chem weapon!!!

In Bell’s case, the nerve gas toxin chemicals were in his garage They seized five computers and three semiautomatic assault rifles, then opened his garage door. Before them stood dozens of containers filled with chemicals. There were volatile solvents, explosives ingredients, sodium cyanide, nitric acid, and diisopropyl fluorophosphate--one of several ingredients that, if properly mixed, form nerve gas--all in a residential neighborhood

And the CIA disagrees with you, too! "The argument that chemical weapons are too difficult for most terrorists to manufacture was discredited when a CIA report "concluded that 'clandestine production of [chemical and biological weapons] for multiple casualty attacks raises no greater technical obstacles than does the clandestine production of chemical narcotics or heroin" (Stern, 402). These factors make chemical weapons attainable, not only to well funded terrorist groups, but also to any disgruntled postal employee or other lunatic –"

Dr. Iris Shannon, President of the American Public Health Association, in 1989 cited "several experts" to the effect that "it would be very easy for an individual to develop his or her own biological weapons and that many new organisms could simply be built in a kitchen and produced in great quantities in a brewery" (SCJ 1990: 114). ......According to the US Congressional Office of Technology Assessment (OTA), "The technical requirements for culturing microorganisms or producing toxins for use in bioweapons are not particularly high. Most estimates are that second-year or third-year medical or microbiology students would have enough laboratory experience to prepare an agent with minimal danger to themselves" (1992: 37). Similarly, Jenkins and Rubin estimate that "The technical knowledge required would be that of an experimental microbiologist, probably at the level of at least a master's degree. Some knowledge of aerosol systems would also be required, although for a crude dispersal mechanism, this knowledge need not be advanced..." (1978: 226). Several authors believe that, if the terrorists themselves lacked the necessary technical expertise, it would be relatively easy for them to recruit those who did have it (Simon 1989: 13)19. " (a militant anarchist website BTW)

On the delivery question, the alleged after-action report indicates they were planning on dispersing it from propeller craft over Houston. I don’t know if that’s true and it wouldn’t matter to my theory because there could be many ways of dispersing it – water supply, food supply, air compressors, a projectile, UPS, or even just open a container in a crowded area – something like was done in Japan. "…Biological agents can be delivered to a target in a variety of ways, some requiring minimal technical skills. Bacterium and viruses can be easily introduced into a building’s ventilation system with small aerosol canisters or simple insecticide sprayers. Dispersal of bacterium spores by explosive devices or high-powered rocket warheads is feasible. Effective mass destruction could be accomplished with a payload aboard a single-engine Cessna like the one that crashed into the White House in 1995. (In his book, Harris describes the Cessna 150 as an ideal craft for such a biological attack.) "If one crazed amateur can violate the airspace of what is supposed to be the most secure building in America and leave his plane piled up a few feet below the President’s bedroom, a dedicated terrorist can manage a successful airborne biochemical attack of any major city in the country," says Michael Reynolds, senior intelligence analyst for the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Intelligence Project. …."

I think they found absolutely NO physical evidence of a WMD in the wreckage and ashes to justify their actions and the smart ones in the chain of command realized they had been conned. The fact that Clinton hasn't claimed credit for saving us from the horror of a WMD, tells me that there isn't any evidence to show that there ever was one. Also the relatively quick exit of the Feds from the scene and the turnover to the TexRangers is indicative of no evidence. (I would have expected them to have been there for months if there was any possibilty of residue of a biotoxic, nuke, or chem weapon.)

IMHO, they got all of the WMD components and contaminates in the fire and afterwards they removed all residues as shown below. Pictures from the clean-up show some caution, badges, gear, etc.

St. Louis Post-Dispatch 1/29/2000 Terry Ganey "..... Congressional investigator March Bell says the treatment of those bodies was "very troubling. The bodies were preserved in a semi-frozen state in two trailers for the purposes of investigation. For some reason those trailers under the control of the FBI were allowed to not have any electricity running to them and the bodies deteriorated beyond the point where any sort of forensic evidence could be gathered. We were very disturbed by that." Indeed, the scene of the massacre was declared a "bio-hazard," and since the FBI had predetermined this was a mass suicide, "The FBI investigators were instructed to sift, wash, and bleach the evidence associated with the bodies, destroying much of its evidentiary value." ..."

St. Louis Post-Dispatch 1/29/2000 Terry Ganey ".....The FBI bulldozed the "bunker" to rubble. Six years later, in 1999, when Davidian attorneys were granted permission to recover the portion that might bear traces of the explosive used, that portion of the bunker ceiling was found to be missing. Gen. Partin concludes the rudimentary gunpowder possessed by the Branch Davidians would not have been capable of blowing that hole through six inches of reinforced concrete. Special Forces Sgt. Steven Barry reports the damage inside the records vault was "consistent with a shaped charge," as does retired USAF ordnance engineer Col. Jack Frost. "In military operations, it's standard procedure to do this," Barry explains, in order to reduce casualties among the attacking forces...."


A chemical WMD would have been spread by the massive fire, even if only components of it were present at the Mount. A biological WMD could not have been contained due to the high winds and tank bashing, and at the very least would have infected and/or killed the Davidians and the early post-assault investigators. A nuclear WMD, even if only in components, would have spread radioactivity via the fire and high winds.

I don’t believe it was a nuclear WMD either.

As for the spreading of a biochem by fire or wind, and speaking strictly as a layperson, there was one enormously explosive fireball right over the concrete bunker area (where I believe the bodies were placed to eliminate contaminates in the explosion) and the tanks were pushing into the fire.

I would imagine the DFG operatives would have had sufficient thermal intensity and coverage as part of the plan to catch it all in the initial flash. After all, they were using very sophisticated bugging devices and were privy to everything going on inside the compound. And DFG operatives had infiltrated. So I’m personally confident they would have the necessary intelligence to isolate and control a biochem weapon. BTW, the actions after March 21st sure seem to be oriented to controlling a leakage or contaminate.

There was however the liquefied remains, the bleaching of evidence, the declaration of a bio-hazard area, the spill cleanup and bulldozing as indications of some concern about residues.

The lack of hazmat suits is also telling.

If my theory were true, going into the assault of April 19th, the Delta Force operatives - by personal inspection on infiltrations, by various bugs, by government plants inside and by the high tech robots (which I suspect had biochem detection capability) – would have had plenty enough intelligence to plan a mission that would safely destroy the WMD and contaminates through explosive controlled incineration. The physical evidence of the hole in the bunker, the inside of the bunker and the kitchen area – where the WMD was allegedly located – tend to indicate a full consumption.

Further, the agents (military or FBI) would have had the biochem detection capability – either or both the high tech robots and battlefield detection equipment – to determine whether or not the mission was successful and whether hazmat suits or such would be required in the aftermath.

I believe they got all of it but were concerned about residues or other evidence of their involvement – because they did declare a biohazard, the guys inside the bunker wore some special gear, evidence was washed and bleached, bodies were liquefied – and of course it was all bulldozed to rubble.

We can each have our opinions, of course...

YOURS:.. That the leadership of the Christian religious group at Waco was planning "mass destruction" via a particular weapon development; that Koresh had the will (intent) to use it; and that this was the "very good reason" that all of these people were killed."(see #108 for exact wording)

MINE:.. That these people were killed by the ATF, FBI and paramilitary forces of our government; that the event was caused by the incompetent public enforcement of gun control laws to gain points for the Clinton Administration; and that all of the people there were innocent of any crime.(see#81 for exact wording).

It is quite obvious that we have very different points of view. But, for the record, I would not have used the words you used to summarize my position. I’ve boldfaced the phrases I would NOT have used as follows:

.....That the leadership of the Christian religious group at Waco was planning "mass destruction" via a particular weapon development; that Koresh had the will (intent) to use it; and that this was the "very good reason" that all of these people were killed."

I would have used the word Davidians (or Branch Davidians) instead of the word Christian in that context because it is not clear to me exactly what Koresh was teaching. For instance, in a single day of the siege we hear that he thinks he is not Christ according to the Dallas Morning News, yet he tells the FBI that he is (see below.) Because of my own reading of Scriptures, in particular Matthew 24:5, I would have never used the word to describe any group wherein the leadership might have referred to someone other than Jesus of Nazareth as Christ.

Matthew 24:5 says "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many."

March 6, 1993

The Dallas Morning News (WACO 03/06/1993) 3/6/93 Jennifer Nagorka "…..David Koresh says he isn't killing himself, isn't coming out of his lair yet and isn't Christ……. ….."

FBI: Who did you tell me you were?
KORESH: If God sits on the throne, if he gave the book to the Lamb --
FBI: Yes.
KORESH: You know who I am. And you know who I claim that I am.
FBI: And you claim that you're the Lord.
KORESH: I am Christ.
FBI: Well, you didn't say that. You said you claimed to be the Lord.
KORESH: Christ is the same as the Lord. King of Kings and Lord of Lords. The Prince of the Kings of the earth. Yep. What can I say? Shall I lie? No, I will not lie. And, as I said before, my father sits on a throne and he said to wait. And you're being judged…….
FBI: I think you're trying to give me a message, aren't you, David?
KORESH: Well, I'm saying y1all keep negotiating with us and stuff. But woe to the bloody city.

Also, I would not have used the term "all of these people were killed." What I have said consistently is that the government did a "very bad thing" for a "very good reason."

When I say "a very bad thing" I’m referring to government actions through the entire history of the Waco incident to this very day.

In my theory, this includes not only extreme prejudice against Koresh and those who were involved in the WMD but also collateral deaths, property destruction, excessive sentences, character assassinations, public ridicule, perjury and deceptions, stonewalls, manipulating evidence, interfering with investigations, firings or demotions. There’s probably more, that’s off the top of my head. But under my theory, once committed to stopping the WMD at all costs, it was a runaway train...

I’m posting these remarks only to clarify my position for you and the many Waco Researchers and Lurkers. I am not asking you to change your views or to agree with me.


Freeper Protests:

I think someone may have fed you some bad info.

I’m working only from published information.

I suspect that the fact that this theory is emerging now has a lot more to do with the impending end of the Branch Davidian lawsuit against the government than with the events that really happened at Waco.

I assure you I have had no guidance whatsoever to arrive at my theory. My first posting of it was in a reply to an article before March 27th of this year. I surmised it was probably a WMD threat, based on what I knew from gathering the Downside Legacy to that point. Current events since then have fit the theory hand-in-glove, as have the timelines which were first created just a few weeks ago. I didn’t even see the Wilcher report until about April 20th when Freeper jedediah smith sent me a copy.

I did not propose this theory with any purpose in mind other than to respond to Freeper Republic’s specific request. It has nothing at all to do with the Davidian civil suit.

Numerous protests that the government is just too evil for this theory to be true, or that the evidence is not good enough.

If we were arguing the theory in a court of law, admissibility of evidence would be determined by an impartial judge. Looking at it from the point of view of judicial procedures, I am approaching the WMD theory on a civil theory of "preponderance of evidence" as opposed to a criminal theory of "proof beyond a reasonable doubt."

Moreover, mine is only one of more than 2 dozen alternative Freeper theories. The apparently disturbing thing that makes mine unique is culpability. I do not find evil motive on the part of the government, but rather that they did a very bad thing for a very good reason.

On the other side of the fence, there are many Freepers who begin their theory from the presumption of evil motive on the government’s part. For some government culpability is a given and I would suggest they would be far more comfortable with the many alternative theories offered.


Current Information:

Dallas Morning News 10/19/00 Lee Hancock Michelle Mittelstadt "....... A Congressional report released Thursday alleges that President Clinton and Attorney General Janet Reno misled the public for years with claims that U.S. military experts endorsed the "flawed" FBI tear gas attack that ended the Branch Davidian siege. .......... The 99-page report also vigorously criticizes that Justice Department's response in the aftermath of the tragedy, contending that all of the agency's actions "were consistent with an organization that was not eager to learn the full truth about what happened on April 19, 1993." .........The report issued by the committee's Republican majority includes accounts from an Army general and colonel of how they refused Ms. Reno's request to evaluate an FBI plan to assault the Davidian compound when FBI officials were seeking her approval for the tear-gas operation carried out on April 19, 1993. The two special forces officers said they told Ms. Reno that federal limits on involvement by U.S. military in domestic law enforcement actions prohibited them from offering any critique or suggestion about the Waco plan. ..........At one point in discussing the operation plan, then deputy attorney general Webster Hubbell even asked one of the officers "is this legal," the report stated. "The army colonel did not answer when Hubbell looked at him, but stated during his interview with committee staff that his private thought at the time was, 'that's your job; not mine.'" ...... The report adds that both officers told Congressional investigators that they were stunned when they later learned that the tear-gassing plan had been allowed to go forward, but were never contacted by Justice officials assigned to review what happened after the siege. ........."When they left the April 14, 1993, meeting, they were convinced the FBI would never execute the proposed operations plan as it was briefed at the meeting. The Army Colonel stated he believed the Attorney General 'didn't buy the plan being proposed by the FBI.' ...His impression from the meeting was that no one thought it was a smart way to proceed. He went on to state that he was astonished when he saw the fire on TV on April 19, 1993. ........."General (Peter) Schoomacher ... wondered why anyone would make the decision to follow through with the FBI's proposed operations plan as it had been described at the meeting," the report stated. "His thought at the time of the meeting with Attorney General Reno was that [the Hostage Rescue Team] should have put a fence around the compound and waited until the Branch Davidians came out from hunger, but he did not state this thought openly at the meeting." ........Ms. Reno told Congress after the operation ended in tragedy that the military officers she had consulted before approving the plan had concluded it was "excellent," and "sound." President Clinton told reporters immediately after the incident that he was told by Ms. Reno that military officers consulted before the operation "were in basic agreement" with the FBI's operation. ........Committee Democrats contended in their minority response that the officers' statements about their meeting with Ms. Reno had been misinterpreted and that Ms. Reno's account of what happened was supported by three other Justice Department officials. "In short, the majority grossly exaggerates the significance of what is largely a difference in semantics and subjective impressions," the Democrats' response stated. ......."